Jes W - NICU Mamahood

In this episode, I'm connecting with Jes, a NICU advocate and mother of two. Jes shares her journey through the NICU experiences of her sons, Liam and Lucas, discussing the challenges of mental health, the decision to become a parent, and the emotional toll of having a child in the NICU. She emphasizes the importance of community support, the healing process through therapy, and offers valuable advice for families navigating similar experiences.

To learn more about Jes, visit her Instagram, Facebook, or website!

Takeaways

• Community support is vital for NICU families.
• Mental health should be prioritized during pregnancy.
• It's okay to feel disconnected from your child after trauma.
• Screaming in the car can be a form of release.
• Keeping a NICU journal helps track progress and memories.
• Ask questions and advocate for your needs in the NICU.
• It's important to let out your feelings without judgment.
• Finding a mentor or veteran NICU mom can provide support.
• Being present for your children is a journey, especially after trauma.
• Healing takes time, and it's okay to seek help.

Sound Bites

"I love to help people."
"I just want to hold him."
"I feel seen."

Transcript

Chelsea (00:00)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. In this episode, I'm connecting with Jes, known as NICUMamahood to her followers on social media. Jes recounts her experiences of navigating the NICU twice, as well as how she advocated for her mental health needs along the way. Jes is sharing her journey with moms and parents through NICUMamahood in order to document her life with her boys

as well as build a community with other parents and caregivers. Here's Jes.

Chelsea (00:36)
Hello, today I'm here with Jes. Jes, how are you? I'm so good. I'm so excited to talk to you. This is like a repeat of everything I just said to you. Jes is on Instagram and that is how we met. And we comment on each other's things all the time and we like chat all the time. And this is the first time we get to like meet each other. So I'm very excited.

Jes (00:41)
I'm good, how are you? I'm so good, I'm so excited.

Yeah, yeah

me too

Chelsea (01:06)
Yeah, so rather than have me list everything about you that I have in my notes, I would love it if you could sort of introduce yourself a little bit and tell us who you were before you became Jes the mom.

Jes (01:24)
Yeah, so I don't know who I was before. That feels like so long ago. My name is Jes Wagner. I am NICUMamahood on Instagram and Facebook. I am a two point

Chelsea (01:27)
hahahaha

Jes (01:39)
two -time preemie mom so I have two little boys Liam and Lucas who my Liam was born at 28 weeks and he was in the NICU for 68 days and then my son Lucas was born 18 or 19 months later I can't remember that's terrible but yeah yeah so he was born

Chelsea (01:57)
It all blends together.

Jes (02:02)
after Liam and Lucas was a 30 week, yeah 30 weeker. He was 30 weeks 6 days so almost 31 but not quite. He spent 49 days in the NICU so that's my journey in a nutshell and yeah and so since then I've been on Instagram and Facebook just kind of sharing my story and doing

Chelsea (02:11)
got there.

Jes (02:31)
I don't know, the best I can, I guess. So... Yeah.

Chelsea (02:33)
Hahaha

doing,

doing, yeah, like we both said, just like doing what we can to, to like, I don't know, we're just doing it. We're just doing it. Yeah.

Jes (02:43)
Yeah, we're just doing it. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like Instagram and Facebook have been an outlet for me because I feel like so many other moms connect and it's just been really neat to see a community come around me and I feel so supported in that way. And I've had so many moms reach out to me and be like, Hey, if you need a listening ear, I'm here. And I'm like, yeah, same to you. And I get to connect that way. And it's been really neat. Yeah. So yeah.

Chelsea (03:10)
Yeah, I love that. That's, well, that's I mean, that's exactly what what you are with me. Like I came across your account and I don't know. I don't know how it happened. Just one. I really don't know. And then all of a sudden, it's like every other day, we're just kind of like cheering each other on with little with little things. And that

Jes (03:10)
That's me, I guess.

I don't really know either.

Yeah.

Chelsea (03:31)
It's crazy. A lot of people have such a negative connotation around social media and I can see that 100%. But when it comes to like this community, it's been really, really supportive.

Jes (03:37)
yeah.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Like I've had a couple negative comments here and there on my account. Like if a reel will blow up for some reason and like gets to accounts that don't necessarily understand what I'm doing or what I'm about. Sometimes then I'll get some negative comments, but like for the most part, I just can ignore them because I know that they're not who my target audience is. And so it's kind of like, it's fine.

Chelsea (04:09)
Yeah, girl, you had reels blow up, you're killing it. But that's a whole other thing. I need to learn. I need to learn how to do that stuff. But who was just before? Yeah, think at this point, that's what it is.

Jes (04:22)
I wouldn't say I really know, I'd say it's luck, so...

Chelsea (04:30)
Who were you before? Like, what were you into? What were you, like, passionate about? Or maybe still are?

Jes (04:38)
Yeah, so I would say I've always been really passionate about art. I love to create. I love to be creative. As far as like what I'm passionate about, that's probably the majority of my heart is for like...

art and also like helping people. I've always been someone who loves to help people. I love in any way possible. So I worked at an organization where they have like group homes for adults with intellectual disabilities. I loved that job. I left there because it got to be a little too stressful and I was burnt out. But I loved working there. I loved everything about that.

Chelsea (05:17)
Mm.

Jes (05:20)
I mean, and I went from changing adult diapers to like just hanging out with them and having a good time. So it was, it was a really big spectrum, but it was, it was really good. So, and, and I, we call them briefs, not diapers, but yeah, it's, you know, so I don't want anyone to be like, she called them diapers.

Chelsea (05:34)
You

my god, no. This is a judgment free

zone. No.

Jes (05:42)
Yeah,

so, but yeah, I really enjoyed that. And again, it lines up with who I am. I just love to help people. I love to include. I love to do art and yeah, that's, I would say that's who I am. mean, at my core, I am very, just creative and I love mission work too. Like I am a firm,

believer in Christ and so I feel like a lot of what I do I don't really necessarily share that as much as like on NICUMamahood and stuff like I'll say like God is good and that kind of thing but I don't really share that my faith too much just because I want it to be more broad like I want people to be able to relate to my content and it not be necessarily faith -based all the time but yeah that that's another part of who I am so yeah

Chelsea (06:35)
Yeah. And that's

important to you and that's important to your story. And I can 100 % relate that there are like, I've had to separate myself. Like, Quiet Connection is not me. Quiet Connection is not Chelsea. Like my personal account, I'm not quiet about the things that I believe in. But that...

Jes (06:48)
Mm -hmm.

You

Chelsea (06:58)
that sense of like wanting to connect and help others. yeah, that NICUMamahood is amazing and it is doing that and I love it. Also, unrelated, whether this makes it into the episode or not, we'll see. But I also cannot keep track of like who I met through who and who knows who and who follows who. like, so

Jes (07:02)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Chelsea (07:23)
I had another guest a couple of weeks ago, Lindsey Baszler, but she's also like a PMAD survivor and like birth trauma and all that stuff. You guys would super hit it off. Like you are, I'm like trying to make a connection right now. So like.

Jes (07:33)
Okay, yeah.

Chelsea (07:42)
A, your personalities just remind me of each other. B, she's super creative and like loves to make things with her hands and stuff like that. I'll send you her info. You may already be following her. Yeah. she, she, you guys would really get along. Anyway, back to you. This is your time.

Jes (07:43)
Please just remind me of each other. B, she's super creative and

Yeah.

Yes, please do. Yeah, I don't think I am. So yeah, send that to me. Yeah.

No, that's

okay. I appreciate the connection. That's awesome.

Chelsea (08:09)
Yeah, you just, don't know, just just chatting with you. I'm like, my god, this is just like, yeah, anywho. Anyway, so let's sort of let's let's start down your journey. The question that I ask everybody and it's such a lame question, but it gives me a really good background is like, did you always picture yourself being a parent?

Jes (08:31)
No, not at all. So I grew up and my history is I was adopted by my stepdad. My mom remarried after her first marriage and just for time's sake I'll just say my dad

Chelsea (08:33)
No.

Jes (08:51)
entered my life again as an adult and there's been a lot of healing with that and so I feel like my dad is my dad again and so that's been really neat. But part of the reason as I was growing up that I loved adoption so much was because I was adopted by my stepdad. But I also just feel like

I never wanted to bring a kid into this world. didn't think that was for me. I struggle with mental illness and so just didn't want to pass those genes down to anybody and I thought that that was not really the route that I wanted to take. And so when I married my husband at that time, that would have been 2019, I...

was honest with him and I said, I might be open to adoption, but I'm not open to having my own kids. I don't want to have kids. That's not in the cards for me. I just don't want that. And he was like, okay, like I love you and I love who you are. And so if you don't want to have kids, that's fine. So he was not pushy at all. He was not in any way trying to like shape my thoughts about that. So that was

that was part of the reason that actually changed my mind about it. So because he just was so like loving and caring and I was like, you know what, I don't really know that I could do it with anybody else, but I could do it with him. Like he's I love I love my husband so much and he's just been such a huge supporter. He's my rock. yeah, so I feel like with him, it's been it was a matter of

Chelsea (10:05)
haha

Jes (10:27)
I loved who my husband was so much that I wanted little of him, not little of me. And so I know, I know, and so I was like, he would be such a good dad, I can't deprive him of that. so without like, without his swaying me at all, he swayed me completely. So yeah, so he changed my mind and yeah, and it was quite a...

Chelsea (10:31)
Yeah, man, man.

Jes (10:50)
Interesting conversation when I was like, you know, hubby you I think I want to have kids and he was like really like He was like not prepared for that. but then like the more we talked about it the more he was like, I think she's serious so, so yeah, and then we decided that we were gonna have kids and Yeah, that was like a whole like my gosh, I can't believe Jes is having kids

Chelsea (10:56)
Hahaha!

Yeah

Was everyone around you like

who is this person?

Jes (11:19)
Well, I didn't really talk about it too much with like most people because like it's not really something like, I don't want to have kids. Like I talked about it with my husband or like my fiance at the time, but like I didn't really talk about it with a whole lot of people. So I don't think it was like a surprise to everybody.

Chelsea (11:38)
So you decided, you decided and then and then what was that journey like? like you're obviously that's gonna take a mental shift and you have a history of mental health challenges. So did you sort of go into this with any sort of preparation or did you just like say, all right, here we go.

Jes (11:40)
Yeah, I decided!

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, so I had like a, so I talked to my psychiatrist because I am on mental health meds and so I talked to my psychiatrist at the time said, hey, I'm looking to get pregnant and I just want to know like what that's going to look like for me. And so he and I talked about it and essentially he said, we're going to leave you on the meds that you're on because he said there is risk to that but there

he said I think the benefit outweighs the risk. So that was a challenge for me to kind of weigh that risk and say like okay well I need to be stable throughout this not like going wishy washy everywhere. So yeah that was a conversation I had with my psychiatrist and then

Chelsea (12:43)
Yeah.

Jes (12:47)
Yeah, so then we decided we were going to start trying and I was actually on the depot shot previously. So I was on that for, I want to say like five years, like longer than you're supposed to be.

but the reason was because I have PMDD really bad. like I get, I get really bad, like depressive spells right before my period to the point where I'm like suicidal, like every month. And it was just awful. And so it was like, I know that that's what it is. So I need to just not get my period. And that's what I thought was the solution. so then as I was going off of the depot shot, like,

I think my last dose was three months before I was like, you know what, I think I want to have kids, which three months is like, you're supposed to get the next one. So I just didn't get the next one. And then my husband and I started trying and it just was not happening for us. It took a long time for me to get my period back and for me to just, I guess, ovulate again, because, you know, it, it,

Chelsea (13:51)
Yeah.

Jes (13:53)
totally messes with your system when you're on a shot where you, I didn't get my period at all. So yeah, it took seven, seven months of trying, but I would say two months of that was actually trying because I got my period like once or twice and then I was pregnant. So like we were trying but not trying because like in my mind I was thinking.

Chelsea (14:11)
Okay.

You were trying

but it was like the ball's not in the court right now like yeah

Jes (14:22)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

we're like, not really. Yeah, anyway, but it took a really hard mental toll on me because I was like, my gosh, I said I'm ready. And I have to wait seven months to get pregnant. Like I was like, I'm ready. And I all my life, I've never been ready for this. And now I'm like, let's do this. And it was like, no, it's not happening yet. So that was really hard. Yeah, but then in April of 2021,

Chelsea (14:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jes (14:52)
I found out I was pregnant with, I mean I didn't know I was pregnant with Liam at the time, but I found out I was pregnant. And I had like months prior bought like a mug for Josh that said like, fact, you're gonna be a dad from like Dwight Schrute on The Office. Yeah, so I got him a mug that said fact, you're gonna be a dad. And so I like made him his coffee and I like put it in that mug and

Chelsea (14:59)
Yeah.

The office yes

Jes (15:21)
He didn't know I had gotten this mug. And so I'm like, here hubby have some coffee. And he was like, why are you giving me coffee? It's six in the morning. Like, what are you doing? And I was like, here, just look at your cup. And he was like, are you serious? I was like, yeah. And like, it finally happened. And so we were like so ecstatic. And then I got sick. I was so sick. My whole pregnancy with Liam, I was so sick. I didn't have like,

Chelsea (15:29)
You

no.

Jes (15:48)
hypermesis gravadarum or whatever you say. I'm sorry, I don't know how you say it. Did I? Okay. Okay. All right. Well, either way, I wasn't diagnosed with anything other than just I was sick and I would throw up like once or twice a day, every day. It was like enough that it was annoying, but not enough to have like a diagnosis for I got like help for it. like

Chelsea (15:53)
That's it. I think you hit. I think you did it. And if I'm wrong, I think you did. if I'm wrong, blame me because I'm saying I think you did it.

Yeah.

Jes (16:16)
It was so frustrating. anyway, so I was like in and out of work because what would happen, which this is disgusting, I would throw up and I would pee on my pants. I was like, and so like, eventually I started to like, at first I didn't realize what was happening, but like, I guess my pelvic floor was not very strong or something. So I like ended up, it was awful.

Chelsea (16:29)
no!

Jes (16:42)
So I had to like leave work a couple times. So I felt like I was in and out of work a lot and I was like, my gosh. So then I started like wearing a pad and like making sure I was like prepared for this, but it was a mess. Yeah. So then I actually got really stressed at work and I honestly don't know the reason why anymore, but I just like was like, you know what? I need to leave my job because I'm too stressed for being pregnant.

Chelsea (16:53)
God.

Jes (17:08)
And so I decided to leave my job and this would have been, I think September, like, or end of August, beginning of September of 2021 then. So I was like, I don't know, I guess that would be like five months pregnant, something like that. And Labor Day weekend. So mind you, I'm in anniversary season right now. So Labor Day weekend, I went.

Chelsea (17:33)
Yeah.

Jes (17:36)
I was on my way to a picnic and I was like, you know, something doesn't feel right. Like I'm really crampy. I've been having like extra discharge recently. Like it's just something just seems off. So I called my maternal fetal medicine doctor, which I had because of the medications I was on at the time. they wanted to follow me closely because of my psych meds. So I was seeing maternal fetal medicine already, which was good, but I called them and I was like, Hey, I'm, I, I'm,

Chelsea (17:56)
Mm

Jes (18:04)
feeling like something's off. I described everything that was happening. They're like, you know what, you probably should go get checked out at labor and delivery, because I was over 20 weeks at this point. They're like, you should go get checked out at labor and delivery, just make sure everything's okay. So I went and they were like, you know what, your cervix is like kind of shortening, but like it's not at the point where we're concerned about it yet. So it was 2 .7, I guess.

centimeters I don't remember if it's centimeters or millimeters I don't remember but no not dilated so with shortening it's your cervix has depth to it I guess and so once the depth is gone is when you start dilating and so for me the depth was slowly dwindling and so

Chelsea (18:33)
Is this an immune - like dilated?

Jes (18:52)
That was the first time I'd ever heard of preterm labor. Like I didn't even think like anything about it before that or the NICU. Like I had no idea about any of that stuff. Cause why would you? Yeah. so yeah, that was the first time that I had ever kind of learned that preterm labor was a thing. I know that sounds like ridiculous, but like you just get pregnant, you expect it's going to be perfect. And

Chelsea (19:04)
Yeah, it's not something you think about.

Jes (19:19)
Yeah, you don't think anything of it. yeah, so Labor Day weekend is the first time I found out about all that. And the following month I was in and out of L &D for, I don't know how many times. Like it was awful. I have pictures of like my arm, because they stuck me so many times then like for IVs and stuff, because I had to be on magnesium, I had to get penicillin, I had to get

Chelsea (19:31)
Ugh.

Jes (19:47)
The beta methazone shots that they give to help babies' lungs develop. Yeah, it was awful. But I have pictures of my arm blown up because the IV blew out and so my arm is completely like... It was awful. I was already bruised and so the bruise spread out everywhere and it was just so awful. Yeah. Yeah. So then...

Chelsea (19:56)
Yeah.

Ugh.

Jes (20:16)
Yeah, that was my experience being pregnant and I hated it. I didn't want to be a mom and then I have this terrible pregnancy.

Chelsea (20:21)
Yeah!

my god, and you're like, excuse me. This is not what I signed up for.

Jes (20:29)
Yeah, like

exactly I was like what the heck like I wanted and my mom always said she's like I loved being pregnant pregnancy was awesome and I was like What happened here?

Chelsea (20:41)
Yeah,

well, it's hard. It's hard to hear. It's so hard to hear. And I think another thing that's important, and I'm sure you can echo this, is like when we're told like, well, we don't want to scare parents or like we don't want to scare new moms or like this, that, and the other thing. Well, OK, but, and, but, and.

Our stories are valid too. So pushing the narrative of, loved being pregnant. That's so great for you. I'm so happy for you. That's valid for you. That's not valid for me. So like solidarity. Because yeah, talking about it and saying I hated it. There's nothing wrong with that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yeah.

Jes (21:04)
Yeah!

Yeah.

yeah yeah yeah

pregnancy was not a walk in the park for me so and yeah and i'm like my mom just could not relate and i was like i don't know what to tell you like this sucks i hate it yeah so yeah she just could not understand and i was like it's okay like you don't have to understand just know i hate it

Chelsea (21:31)
No!

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

like I think in those moments, we're looking for like, like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Stop telling me how great it was for you. Yeah, like you don't have to be like, you don't have to tell me like, I don't get it. Like, let's go, I don't get it. Just, just, let's just be like, I'm sorry. Or like, I'm here. Like, you know?

Jes (21:59)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And my mom, she's one of my best friends. Like I love my mom. She's super supportive, but she just didn't help me by saying my pregnancies were amazing. Well, I don't know what's wrong with your hers. And I'm like, I don't know either. Yeah. Yeah. There were a couple of things that she said throughout the journey that she was like, that I was like, no, actually.

Chelsea (22:28)
Thanks, Mom. Yeah.

Jes (22:37)
But then I would tell her like hey that wasn't really okay, and she'd be like okay, sorry, but yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah me too

Chelsea (22:42)
Yeah. No, I mean, I'm glad she was receptive to that. Yeah.

so you had not really thought about preterm labor. You'd not really thought about any of those things, which, just like you said, you don't go into a pregnancy thinking about the complications. You just don't.

Jes (23:00)
Yeah.

Chelsea (23:03)
Take me to the point where little man decided it was time to come into the world. Where was your mind at then? And listeners, I want to, and Jes, I'm being super sensitive because like you just said, you're in anniversary zone right now. I am also in anniversary zone right now. I know how difficult this is. So talk about it as you are comfortable.

Jes (23:11)
Yeah.

Chelsea (23:31)
but be mindful of your own boundaries.

Jes (23:35)
Yeah, so Liam was born on October 8th of 2021. So he was exactly 28 weeks and by like a couple hours. So he was born at 424 in the morning. So I had started going into labor that Thursday. And so yeah, I...

Chelsea (23:48)
my gosh.

Jes (23:58)
went into L &D Thursday morning and not really thinking anything of it but like I knew I was having contractions at that point. And so I walked in, I actually drove myself to the hospital having contractions because my husband was like, I have to go to work. Like we didn't have any more time off work until like we had I think one or two days left and it was like for baby to be born. So because we had just been in and out so much. So he's like,

Chelsea (24:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jes (24:28)
have to go to work like I don't know what to do and I was like you go to work I'll drive myself to the hospital and this was not a cut against my husband it just was what it was and so yeah I drove myself to the hospital having contractions and I got there I walked in and they're like yeah you're like four centimeters dilated his head's dropped like we need to get you like going here and I was like okay okay like I didn't know and and so

Chelsea (24:51)
Yeah.

Jes (24:55)
So yeah, actually I think I was two centimeters at that point. But anyway, it was more than I had been. yeah, his head had dropped and everything, like my cervix had shortened completely and he was coming. And so I spent the day in the, think technically it's an antepartum room. Like it wasn't a labor and delivery room. So it was like the...

Chelsea (25:01)
Yeah!

Okay.

Jes (25:22)
Yeah, or I think they consider them the c -section rooms or something like that. Like it's not a room for birthing. Yeah, exactly. So I spent the day in one of those and he was actually born in the same room because they weren't expecting him to be born and he was. So yeah. So yeah, so then I think it was.

Chelsea (25:27)
like where you're waiting. Yeah.

Whoops.

Jes (25:45)
like the the NICU neonatologist came in and talked to me about like what it looks like for a baby to be born at 27 or 28 weeks because at that point I was 27 and six. They said that there is a possibility that he might need to be transferred because of birth weight and that kind of And that had been the month long journey to like we might have to switch hospitals that kind of thing because our local hospital

can only handle so much. he entered the world at 424 in the morning and the neonatologist earlier that day had said he probably won't cry because his lungs aren't developed enough. So don't be scared if he doesn't cry. But he cried. He cried as soon as he came out and it was the tiniest cry I've ever heard in my life.

because his lungs are so little and he was born at 2 pounds 14 ounces so that was actually more than what they had anticipated because they said he'd be about 2 pounds. So he was 2 pounds 14 which is almost 3 which is really good for a 28 -weeker. yeah, so then within seconds he was whisked away to the NICU.

Chelsea (26:48)
Mm

Yeah.

Jes (27:03)
And I had nurses telling me like, look down, you're gonna miss him. Like, because I had like put my head back thinking like, my gosh, it's over. Like this pregnancy is done. Not really thinking, yeah, my son had just been born. And so he came out in two pushes. He was like, ready to go. yeah, so I actually remember asking the nurses to...

Chelsea (27:11)
Yeah.

my gosh.

Jes (27:25)
to repeat the instructions for how to push. Like I said it like that, was like, please, can you repeat that? Because I was so out of it for the magnesium that I was on. And yeah, it just was a mess. But yeah, he was born and he was whisked off to the NICU and suddenly the room just felt quiet. I had delivered the placenta and everyone was kind of gone. And I was just in the room with my husband and I was like, what just happened?

Like I didn't know. I mean knew what happened. But it just got quiet and I was like, this is so weird. I had my baby. But then I just went back to sleep. Because it was like such a weird experience. It was almost like an out of body experience where I was like, I guess I'll go back to sleep now. I was exhausted because I had been up most of the night.

Chelsea (28:02)
Yeah.

Gosh. Well, yeah.

Jes (28:22)
So he and I went back to sleep and then at eight o 'clock it would have been a little bit, so like I said I had him at four, 24, and then at eight o 'clock was his care time, his first care time, and they said that we could go see him. So, but previously the nurses, like my nurses, had gone into the NICU and took pictures of him in videos and stuff and showed me so that way could at least see his face. And I,

I love that they did that and I hate that they did that because that was the first look of my baby's face was on a phone screen. And he was all, he was intubated at that point so he had everything all connected to him and yeah it was just crazy like I look back at that and I'm like I wish they wouldn't have done that because that will forever be my first memory of Liam.

So yeah, so at eight o 'clock, like I said, they came in and they were like, did you want to go see him? And I said, sure. So I got in the wheelchair. They took me over and yeah, so I was really woozy and like out of it because again, I was on magnesium drip, which is just awful, awful, awful. So yeah, I went and saw him for a little bit and...

Chelsea (29:36)
Yeah.

Jes (29:43)
It just all felt not real. So, yeah, it was just like really odd and like an out of body experience. Like I don't, I don't remember a lot of it anymore. Like of that first time seeing him. but I remember vividly the pictures that like those, those pictures that were on my phone. I remember vividly in my mind, like I can pull them up. I see them. I see every little detail of them. So.

It's just interesting how, yeah, I don't remember meeting Liam. I remember the pictures of him.

Chelsea (30:16)
Yeah, how like the trauma imprinted. Like, yeah, that is, that's really interesting and you're certainly not alone in that. I've, I've heard that before, but it is, it's, it's interesting to think about too, that, that the first time you saw your son was on a screen and yeah, yeah, I,

Jes (30:19)
Yeah.

Mm

Yeah.

Chelsea (30:42)
just had mom brain and my train derailed but it happens to me quite frequently.

Jes (30:45)
It's okay. It happens to all of us.

Chelsea (30:53)
So you're sort of like at this point almost like dissociated it sounds like. Like everything was a whirlwind going from constant monitoring and constant attention to you to sort of like everything being quiet and everything the focus is now on your baby.

Jes (31:12)
Yeah.

Chelsea (31:13)
What were those first few days like? Because I'm assuming you were in the hospital for a little bit. Yeah.

Jes (31:18)
Yeah. So,

I was in the hospital. So I guess I had him on a Friday. I was discharged Saturday morning. The next day? But I will say I think that was divine planning because, so I was discharged. I want to say it was like,

Chelsea (31:29)
The next day? my gosh.

Jes (31:43)
like around lunchtime, because I went home and my mom had made me lunch and she had cleaned my house and everything. And my husband brought me home. And then like,

I had been home maybe like a half an hour to an hour and I got a call from the NICU because before we were discharged they went over like, this is our phone number, you can call all of the ins and outs of the NICU. And so I got a call from the NICU, I answered and they were like, we wanted to catch you before you left.

Liam had a pulmonary hemorrhage, so he had bleeding in his lungs, and he needs transferred to a bigger hospital that has a jet ventilator because we don't have that capability here. And so at the time, I remember thinking like, okay, like he just needs transferred, that's fine, all right. So we went back to the hospital.

Chelsea (32:38)
Yeah.

Jes (32:41)
we had to sign off and all that, because he had to be emergency helicoptered to the other hospital. And so I went in and I, like my husband and I were like prepared to go to the other hospital with him and they said, you can't, you can't fly with him. Like you have to drive there. So we waited for the other hospital to get there and they flew in and

Next thing I know, I'm driving out of L &D, like out of where the NICU is, and to my right, I look over and my son is being wheeled in this portable incubator up to the helicopter. And that is a memory that lives vividly in my brain as well. And so we drove to the next hospital.

Chelsea (33:30)
Yeah.

Jes (33:35)
And again, I don't think it really hit me what was going on until a couple weeks later, we had the same doctor, the neonatologists kind of go back and forth between hospitals. And so we had the same doctor that had said, hey, he had a pulmonary hemorrhage, he needs transferred while we were in the Harrisburg NICU, which would be the bigger hospital. And so she was there at the Harrisburg hospital and she said,

I didn't expect him to do this well. Like she was like, I really was not expecting him to do this well. Yeah, and I remember that too where I was like, like I didn't realize how severe this was, you know? Like you're in the moment and like Josh and I are always just like joking together and like having fun together. And so we were like, we didn't realize our son was literally dying.

Chelsea (34:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jes (34:29)
We had no idea and like the doctors didn't tell us like, you know, like they told us the severity but like it didn't click. And so it was just, it's just very interesting how trauma works because now looking back, I'm like, why, like, what was I doing? Like my son was dying and I was here giggling with my husband, but like, but like.

Chelsea (34:38)
Mm -hmm.

You are in self

-preservation mode. Yeah.

Jes (34:55)
Yeah, yeah. it

just is like, yeah, I honestly don't think I would have got through it otherwise. Because it was, it was, yeah, it just really bizarre, like, how we got through that. But yeah, so he was transferred to the bigger hospital, and he was there for four weeks, through the end of October, beginning of November.

And then he was transported back to the smaller hospital because he was doing better. But that first week of his life, wasn't allowed to hold him. it was, he was on the jet ventilator when he was first transferred. And then after that, he was transferred to like a regular intubation ventilator. And so yeah, his first week of life, like it was Friday to Friday, I didn't hold him.

Chelsea (35:43)
Mm

Jes (35:49)
I wasn't able to hold him and that was extremely hard. still, when I have PTSD episodes now, it's like I'm holding him like against me and I'm like, just let me hold my baby. Just let me hold my baby. So, so I still like, I still have flashbacks to that time where I was like, I just want to hold him. Just let me hold him. And yeah, so that's, that's really hard. mean, I, I can't imagine.

Chelsea (36:00)
Yep.

Jes (36:15)
what was going through my mind because I like...

I can't put myself back there if that makes sense. I just wanted to hold my baby and they won't let me. So yeah, that was really hard. That's putting it lightly. The hardest thing I've ever done was wait to hold my baby and also leave him in the NICU and go home.

Chelsea (36:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I was gonna say I'm like that's such a

Jes (36:43)
It would have been the night, his first night in the big hospital. So I had been discharged that Saturday. It would have been that Saturday night. I went home. My husband stayed with him at the NICU and I went home. Cause he said, Jes, you really need your rest. Like you need, you need to sleep and I'll stay here with him. He'll be okay. If anything happens, I'll call you. I said, okay. So.

I went home, I got to, well actually I got to the parking lot and I completely lost it. I was like, you know, like, I can't leave my baby, he's, it's my baby. Like that was the first time I actually felt like he was mine, was when I left the hospital. I was like, this is not natural, this is not normal. Like I'm leaving my baby in the hospital. So that was, yeah, that was the.

Chelsea (37:20)
Mm.

Jes (37:31)
That, in addition to not holding him, those were the two hardest parts of the NICU for me. Yeah, and to this day, like I said, if I have like a PTSD episode where I am like having a flashback, that's where I flashback to, is leaving him in the NICU and not being able to hold him.

Chelsea (37:48)
can't relate in terms of the NICU experience, but in terms of being separated from my baby, I can absolutely relate. And that need to like, I need to hold my baby. I, yeah, I feel that.

Jes (38:01)
Yeah.

Chelsea (38:03)
So you went through all of this and there's so much more to it. There are so many more little intricacies and feelings. And then you decide to have another baby.

Jes (38:16)
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking.

Chelsea (38:18)
you're that well you don't you don't for a minute think that like yeah this is gonna happen again but it did it happened again how was how was this experience different was it pretty similar like

Jes (38:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, it did.

Yeah, so with Lucas, I had a preconception appointment with MFM, the maternal fetal medicine, and they said, you know, we can lower your chances of this happening again by 40 % just by doing progesterone suppository vaginally. So I...

had that and I started that at I think eight weeks. So I was eight weeks, I started doing that. And by I think halfway through my pregnancy, like, I can't like this doing it vaginally is like too much. So they said, you can just take it orally. It's the same thing. And I was like, the same pill that's so gross. Like, I can either put it up in my vag or I can put it in my mouth. Like that is so bizarre to me. But either way.

Chelsea (39:13)
Yeah.

Jes (39:26)
I started taking it orally. Why would I put it up there

Chelsea (39:26)
But also like but also why why didn't you tell me that?

Jes (39:31)
if I could just swallow it?

Chelsea (39:34)
Yeah, hello! my god!

Jes (39:36)
Yeah, but I guess because it's more localized and it like, it's yeah, but like, if I had the option this whole time and you didn't tell me, yeah, they said, yeah, they're like, you can just take it orally if it's too much. anyway, I was taking progesterone and so

Chelsea (39:40)
That's true. That's true.

Yeah, thanks.

Jes (39:58)
I made it a little bit longer, like I said, he was 30 weeks, six days when he was born. But I knew, like I knew from early on, I was like, we're not gonna make it the whole way. And so we got to 28 weeks and things were fine.

Chelsea (40:10)
Mm.

Jes (40:17)
And then I started having discharge again like I did with Liam and I started having cramping and I was like, you know, I think it's happening again. And they were like, well, you made it to 28 weeks like that. That was your marker. And actually I got, I could cry. at 28 weeks, I got.

maternity photos done with Liam and I didn't get that opportunity with Liam so like at 28 weeks exactly like the day of 28 weeks and it was like so weird it was definitely a god thing for me because the photographer that did our wedding

Chelsea (40:44)
Yeah.

Jes (40:59)
she posted that she was back in Lancaster because she had moved on to like North Carolina or something like that and so she was back in Lancaster she was doing minis and she said I have a pay what you want session in between like I don't know what it was so I was like I don't have a lot to offer but I would love that session and she was like okay great so we ended up getting maternity pictures done by our wedding photographer

and it was just so perfect because like I said I didn't get that opportunity with Liam so that was really cool and the fact that it was like 28 weeks which is exactly when Liam was born it was so healing for me in a lot of ways but in other ways I think it was just as hard so it is what it is but yeah so anyway so yeah Lucas got with Lucas

Chelsea (41:33)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jes (41:58)
I wanna say it was 30 weeks, and then I was like, I'm not making it any more than this. I was like, this is it for me. And I remember I went to an MFM appointment, they said, you know what, your cervix really is shortening more this time, it's coming down. I remember them saying it was like 0 .7 or something like that.

Chelsea (42:08)
Yeah.

Jes (42:20)
0 .7 centimeters like it was not even a centimeter anymore and I was like I'm having contractions. They're like Yeah, we see they did a non -stress test. They're like, yeah, we see that but we'll see you again in a week. It'll be okay We'll see you again in a week. Went from that appointment to the hospital. I was like, this is not okay. And so I went to the hospital They're like, you know, we'll see like you might be progressing you might not be because at that point I had been in and out again and

Chelsea (42:36)
Yeah.

Jes (42:47)
They're like, well, we'll just keep you for a little bit longer. And they kept me for a little bit longer. And lo and behold, here he was coming out. So it was like, yeah, like I started to dilate and more and all this. And I remember at one point through my pregnancy, I was one centimeter dilated. And they're like, well, we, you could walk around at one centimeter dilated. Like it's no big deal. You can just be dilated. And it is like at one centimeter, no biggie. And I was like, what?

Chelsea (42:54)
my gosh.

Jes (43:17)
Like, what do you mean no biggie? Like, to me, that's pretty biggie.

Chelsea (43:23)
Yeah,

especially coming from your history. Yeah.

Jes (43:26)
Yeah, like I was like, this is like, yeah, all around I was,

I was satisfied with my OBGYN. It was MFM that I struggled with a little bit. And I ended up when I went back for my second pregnancy, said, I don't want to see the first, the doctor that I saw when I was pregnant with Liam. Yeah, that was hard too, but

Chelsea (43:44)
Yeah.

Jes (43:46)
So yeah, so I had Lucas at 30 weeks, six days, and honestly, I disassociated so much from his birth, from his NICU stay that I don't remember a lot of it. And I think that was just my trauma I was protecting myself. And so when Lucas came home from the NICU, it took a couple months, like I want to say at least a month or two for me to feel like he was actually my child.

I, because I had been through so much with Liam, I couldn't have the same feelings I had for Liam, for Lucas. Because I was like, I can't put myself through that again. And so I felt like I was taking care of somebody else's kid with Lucas. Like it was like that much I was so far removed from him. And now, like, I love my kids. They're, they're both mine. and I, yeah, like

Chelsea (44:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jes (44:37)
I get upset when people favor Liam over Lucas. I love both my boys so much. They're my whole world. But yeah, I couldn't put myself back in the same place I was when I had Liam. And the other hard part about that too was I had Liam at home and I had Lucas in the NICU and I had to somehow manage

both my kids at the same time, even though I didn't feel that connection with Lucas that I had with Liam. And so that was really difficult for me. Because I just wanted to be with Liam. I just wanted to be with my boy like that I had connection with. so, but I still showed up for Lucas. I read him books like I read Liam. I sang to Lucas. I did everything that I did with Liam.

Chelsea (45:14)
Yeah.

Jes (45:25)
but it felt like I was going through the motions. So that was, I'm not proud to say that because I feel like I'll get judgment for not connecting to Lucas, I feel, I still to this day feel terrible about it because like the first couple months of his life, he wasn't mine. And no matter,

Chelsea (45:34)
No.

Yeah.

Jes (45:46)
what I do, can't change that. it just, and I hate that that's how we started out and I try really hard to not think about that. I just made a post today actually, I made a reel today about how if I could go back in time, if I could time travel and I could go back and tell myself like everything's gonna be okay. Everything, every little thing is gonna be okay. That was the reel I made today. I was like.

Chelsea (46:10)
Yeah.

Jes (46:12)
You know, if I could go back and tell myself like both your boys are beautiful, they're healthy, they're thriving, they're so happy, so happy to the point that everyone comments on it. Everyone is like, your boys are just so happy. They're always happy. And I'm like, I know, cause they are. And if I could go back and tell myself that I just feel like things would have been different and, but I can't. And so I have to remind myself of that now. And so,

Chelsea (46:29)
Yeah.

Jes (46:41)
When I think about the times where I was disassociated or the times that were really hard with Liam, I have to remind myself that things are good now. And in this moment, they're happy, they're healthy, they're thriving, and that's all that I can ask for. And so I have to just remind myself of that now. So, yeah.

Chelsea (46:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's that whole being present thing. It's something I'm working on too. It's really hard. When you go through trauma of any kind, it's really hard to not live in it. But especially when it's associated with your kids, because that's like your whole life. Like you see them all the time. You're with them all the time.

Jes (47:06)
That's really hard. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And going to that point, like I, I feel like I haven't been present for the past three years. so like, I just started, so Liam, Liam will be three in October. and I just started EMDR therapy to try to help, kind of process some of those trauma memories. And so,

Chelsea (47:44)
Yeah.

Jes (47:47)
for anyone that's not familiar with EMDR, I'll just share a little bit. So it has to do with right left tapping. It like reprocesses trauma in your brain. it like, scientists have done studies where trauma will light up in one part of your brain before EMDR and then after it lights up in like a completely different section of your brain. So EMDR literally recategorizes it in your brain.

Chelsea (47:51)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Jes (48:15)
which is crazy to me to think about. so it has to do with like right left tapping like you can tap on your shoulders, you can tap on your legs or you can watch somebody go back and forth with their hand or like a light bar or something like that. Like your eye movement is the right left movement. And so I just started that and we've been doing prep work this like for the past like two months I feel like. So I go every other week. Yeah, I go every other week right now.

Chelsea (48:38)
Yeah, you've been posting about it. Yeah.

Jes (48:44)
And we've just done prep work and it feels both

a nerve wracking and also I feel more confident about it because we've done a lot of prep work. But even just like things like finding a happy place to go to when I'm like if I get deep into a memory or something like that like it's it's all of those nuances of like you don't want to get stuck in it you want to process it and so yeah.

It's been really good, but I'm nervous because next time we're going to start processing my trauma memories. So see how that goes, but fingers crossed. Yeah, I... Yeah, go ahead.

Chelsea (49:19)
Yeah. Well, I'm sending you

like giant, giant, giant hugs because I haven't... EMDR is something... My husband has done EMDR for his trauma and it's something that I have thought about, but like I'm scared. Like I... So I totally get it. Like I'm scared. don't...

Jes (49:27)
Ha ha ha!

Yeah.

Chelsea (49:47)
So I'll be really curious to see how, what your feelings are on it once you get into it. But.

Jes (49:55)
Yeah, I've heard that it can -

bring up stuff like when you're not in therapy, like not in your session as well. And so I am nervous, especially because I'm in anniversary season right now. So I'm nervous, but I'm excited because part of EMDR therapy, part of like finding a happy place is they give you like three different ways to find a happy place. And so one of them is picturing yourself in the future without your trauma. And so

Chelsea (50:07)
Yeah.

Mm.

Jes (50:24)
At first I pictured myself, well first it was hard to picture myself without my trauma because I think I'm so closely linked, it's in every part of me, that I was like, who am I without my trauma? know, like I just don't know how to separate the two. But then the more I thought about it, I pictured myself at Liam's graduation and I was just like so completely present in the moment.

Chelsea (50:32)
Mm

Jes (50:49)
And that's how I want to be. I want to be present in the moment with my boys and I'm just not capable of that right now. And so, so that was kind of like, that's not just my happy place, it's my why. Cause I want to be present with my kids and I want to be able to,

Chelsea (51:03)
Yeah.

Jes (51:06)
you know, like just be there for them in every single moment of them growing up and so far I haven't been and I feel like both of us, like both my sons and I are robbed of that so I want to change that for the future.

Chelsea (51:13)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah. And that takes incredible strength, even though I know it doesn't feel like it. It feels like when you're when you're taking those steps, it's like, this should be easy. And and it's not. it's OK to say that it's not. And but you're what you're doing is so incredible. And the gift that you're giving not only yourself, but your kids.

Jes (51:31)
Yeah.

Chelsea (51:48)
through processing this trauma is there are no words. There are no words. And you're still so fresh in it too. Like, this was not that long ago.

Jes (51:57)
Yeah.

Yeah Lucas was born 15, he's 15 months old now so like yeah it's yeah but I I'm determined I want I want to heal because I think my boys deserve that and I think I do too so yeah

Chelsea (52:08)
Yeah.

You do. Yeah, you deserve it.

so these are my favorite kind of episodes where I make bullet points and like none of them are relevant because no, for real though, because this is a real conversation. This is the type of this is the type of thing that I'm trying to make normal.

Jes (52:27)
You

Yeah.

Chelsea (52:38)
and that you're trying to make normal. Just like talk about this stuff and talk about the scary and talk about the not scary and talk about the healing and just talk about it.

You have been helping me this week with more NICU awareness stuff. So I did my weekly series on just like NICU awareness and whatnot. And I've been putting your little blips of your experiences in my stories.

Jes (52:57)
Yeah.

Chelsea (53:09)
But I think there's so much we could go into and I could like literally ask you questions for hours. So this is the hard part is like focusing in on where to focus our energy. But because of the advocacy that you're doing,

Jes (53:17)
This is hard part.

Chelsea (53:26)
like right now you're sharing other people's stories too, which is, which is so amazing because you're not only spreading awareness, but you're giving voices to these other families that have gone through similar experiences. So I think what I want to ask you as, like a lived experience expert is

Jes (53:31)
Yeah.

I don't know about expert, but yeah.

Chelsea (53:51)
Well, you're an

expert in your lived experience. and yes. What are some things that like you either wish you knew or that you want to pass on to other families who may experience a NICU stay? Like, what are some things to be aware of? What are some things to recognize within yourself? What is it just like?

Jes (53:55)
That's true, that's true.

Chelsea (54:15)
your top tips, I guess, or what helped you through your NICU experience.

Jes (54:21)
Yeah, so, I would say my top tips, which I don't think it's a one size fits all in any way, but what had helped me the most through my NICU experience was I found a...

trying to think of the right word a veteran NICU mom so she had twins at 25 weeks back in like early 2000 so her her daughters were 18 at the time that I was going through the NICU so she had twin 25 -weekers and she was my safe place in all of that that I was going through with Liam especially but

Chelsea (54:39)
Mm -hmm.

Jes (55:03)
Also with Lucas and so Since she wasn't a two -time mom. I felt like it was a little bit more challenging for her to relate the second time but but yeah, so she had like I said twin 25 weekers and

Chelsea (55:11)
Mm -hmm.

Jes (55:18)
She told me the best advice that she got was just to let out her feelings. so she said she used to like scream in her car, she used to do like whatever she would need in the moment is something that she would just kind of like let herself have. And so that's something that I adopted. And also she just let me be like in her presence. Like she just let me.

vent she let me tell her what was going on without saying like, you need to do this or like, I can't believe you feel like that. Like it was like totally judgment free, totally supportive and just like I'm here for you and I want to hear what you have to say. And so I have so much, so much respect for her and so much honestly, that I wish I could get back to her but

But yeah, so she was just incredible. so some of the things that I adopted from what she told me was I screamed in my car. I screamed in my car a lot. like our drive to the bigger NICU was like 45 minutes. And so on my way there and on my way back, I would put on worship music and I would just scream the lyrics. Because like sometimes I didn't know what to say or I didn't know what to even

Chelsea (56:22)
Yeah.

Jes (56:41)
pray when I was like praying about our situation. So I would just scream the worship lyrics. And it was my way of declaring like, Liam's going to live Liam's going to live and there's going to be peace and all this like I was declaring all of these things through screaming worship music. I call it my screamo worship. Yeah, screamo worship but but yeah, so like I literally screamed so much I hurt my voice. Like,

Chelsea (57:00)
You can start a new genre. Yeah.

Jes (57:10)
because it just, it really got it out for me. so, yeah, so I would do that. But then also like, I don't know, I feel like just being able to be myself and feel my feelings, whatever that might be, like the disassociation, I felt like, I felt bad about it, but I also knew I was protecting myself. And so like just being able to say like,

I don't really feel connected to Lucas and for Josh or like my husband or my family to be like, Jes, that's okay. Like what you're feeling is okay. was so valuable to me. but yeah, other than that, like as far as my tips for the NICU, ask questions. It's always good to ask questions. I kept a NICU journal for both of them.

where I kept their daily weights, I kept all the notes from rounds. have a NICU journal for both of them because it just was so helpful for me. And now I can go back and look through that and say like, my gosh, he did this, this and this. like, did he have Tylenol for his PDA? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. Or like, this was the day he had his blood transfusion. Like all of these things, like I have written down. And so,

Chelsea (58:27)
Yeah.

Jes (58:34)
Not that I look at that frequently because it's a lot but if I needed the information I have it so so yeah keeping like a journal there are really great NICU journals like on Amazon or I've got I got my first one off Etsy from I forget what the I think it was the potato head project yeah so I got my first NICU journal off from from them and

Chelsea (58:37)
Yeah.

I like that name.

Jes (59:02)
I think it was from them and it was like, so they said that their kiddo was born and was the size of Mr. Potato Head. they have, they called it the Potato Head project. anyway, that's a side note. yeah, yeah, they, yeah. So that was actually my first like account that I followed that was like NICU related. And then it was like, it just grew from there because I was just searching like anywhere.

Chelsea (59:16)
It's a little plug.

Jes (59:30)
everywhere and anywhere for community because I needed it. The NICU is so incredibly lonely, like especially during the time of COVID where family couldn't come in and sit with us. So I was literally sitting in the NICU by myself all the time. And I have never felt so incredibly lonely in my whole entire life as I was sitting in the NICU. so reaching out, finding community is so vital.

Chelsea (59:32)
Yeah.

Jes (59:57)
Whether it is online whether it's in person any anything that you can find whether it's your friends your family and I had to teach my friends and family like what they can say to me and what they can't and yes that took time and energy on my behalf, but I Couldn't like my my friends didn't know they didn't know what to do. They didn't know what to say and so for those of you that like might have a friend or family in the NICU

I would say just like, show up for them, you know, like it is the most lonely time in my whole life. I've never experienced loneliness like the NICU. And so showing up for them in ways like, we had a friend come and mow our lawn. Josh, my husband, he was so thankful. He's like, I can't, I can't mow the lawn. I can't do it. Like I have so much other stuff going on. I can't mow the lawn. And our friend came and just showed up and mowed the lawn.

Chelsea (1:00:37)
Mmm.

Jes (1:00:50)
Like he brought his mower and everything. Like we had a mower, but he brought his mower. He mowed the lawn and that was so powerful. And so we remember those things and how people just showed up for us, you know? And I've learned a lot about how to show up for other people too in like...

Chelsea (1:00:52)
You

Jes (1:01:11)
It's just crazy to me how people don't know how to interact with you and it's like I just like if you're going through a hard time like I had someone I had a friend recently who was going through a hard time and I was like you know what I'd like to make you a meal is would you prefer this or this and can I drop it off on this day or this day like just giving those like little options not like

Hey, I'd like to bring you a meal. What day works for you? What would you like me to bring? Like all this stuff. Like don't give them all the options. Their brain is already thinking about so many other things. You don't need more options. like you need like, yeah, you need like yes or no answers. Like, hey, I want to bring you a meal on this day at this time. Can I bring this? Is that okay? And then you'd be like, yes, that would be awesome. Or no, maybe bring it the next day or something like that. You know what I mean? Like it's little things that means so much.

Chelsea (1:01:51)
Yeah, you're on mental overload.

Mm -hmm.

Jes (1:02:08)
So yeah, anyway, that was a lot, but yeah.

Chelsea (1:02:09)
Yeah, that's no that was that was

amazing. and it echoes.

What I've heard from other parents who have had NICU experiences or have had birth trauma experiences, I think one of, or for literally anyone in your life who's going through any sort of struggle, be it mental health or physical health or just life changes. Like I know a lot of us go for that go -to, like if you need anything, let me know. And that comes from a good place, but it's not.

Jes (1:02:40)
It's so not helpful.

Chelsea (1:02:45)
It's not actually helpful. like remembering to be like, I know you love, I don't know why I'm picking, all I can think of is like Chipotle. I've never even been to a Chipotle. I think we have one in the entire state, but like, so like, but like, I know you love Chipotle. I'm gonna door dash it. Just like you said, like, do you want it tonight or tomorrow night? Like, or things like that, like.

Jes (1:02:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (1:03:11)
taking the extra step, thinking about the person and what their needs and wants are and taking it upon yourself so that all they have to do is just say yes or no. I think that's, yeah, that's being echoed. So whether it's you or whether you're supporting someone, like, it's really, really amazing to say, let me know what you need. It's even more amazing to say, I know what you love.

Jes (1:03:23)
Yeah.

Chelsea (1:03:37)
Is it okay if I give it to you? Or is it okay if I do it today?

Jes (1:03:40)
Yeah.

Chelsea (1:03:40)
So yeah, there are literally a gazillion more things that I would love to chat with you about. But I, and I'm not even kidding.

Jes (1:03:48)
hahahaha

Chelsea (1:03:51)
So yeah, so like we've talked about so much. There's obviously so many more intricacies in terms of how you were handling your mental health at the time and what kind of support you had and and that's an ongoing journey for you. I

For listeners, especially listeners who are going through a NICU experience right now, I would love it if you could sort of talk about what NICU mamahood is all about and where you're on Facebook and Instagram so they know they can find you there. But like what your goals are and what you hope for to come from it.

Jes (1:04:20)
I am, yeah.

Yeah, so, NICUMamahood started because I wrote a book. So I was starting the journey of advertising that and trying to figure out the nuances of that and it was kind of a flop. I'm not gonna lie, I haven't really sold a lot of my book, but...

What's really cool about it is my Instagram has kind of flourished, my Facebook has flourished, and it's become so much more than just about advertising my book. And so while I have a book out there in the world if you'd like it, it's there, it's NICUMamahood NICUMamahood, the musings of a NICU Mama It's on Amazon if you want to look it up by Jes Wagner. Yeah, it's...

Chelsea (1:04:57)
Mm -hmm.

which is called...

Jes (1:05:11)
short and sweet it's my writings from when I was in the NICU, it's poetry I wrote while I was in the NICU or about the NICU. I actually published it, I want to say... so Liam came home from the NICU December 15th, I published my book December 31st.

Chelsea (1:05:32)
Holy crap. my god!

Jes (1:05:36)
So it was literally my writings from when he was in the NICU and shortly after he was home. I took all of that and I just kind of put it all together. I tried to write a second book, but it's not as good. I'll share that as well. So I know that's terrible to say, but like I'm being honest. don't worry about the second book. Don't worry about that. First book. First book is a good one.

Chelsea (1:05:53)
Hey, you know what? It's your experience.

Jes (1:06:00)
NICUMamahood the musings of a NICU Mama it's literally just my writings of when I was in the NICU But anyway, I, like I said, started NICUMamahood as a way to share about my book and my experience. And I think it grew into something so beautiful. It's like, it's just, it's my way of sharing how I'm feeling. It's my way of

sharing my journey and my experiences that I've had and for others to say, hey, me too. And so that's been so incredible. And like I've had people comment or message me, especially since I put out there like, hey, send me your NICU warriors so that I can share them. I've had people say to me like, I found your account while I was in the midst of my NICU journey. And it's been so cool to see like your boys growing and been so cool to see like

Chelsea (1:06:33)
Mm -hmm.

Jes (1:06:56)
I'm not alone and and like I said the NICU is so isolating and so I love that I built this community that I feel like I can share how I'm feeling and they're like yeah me too and like I don't necessarily know where it's headed because it is kind of just an ever evolving what I'm doing is kind of what I'm doing but I would say

Chelsea (1:06:58)
Yeah.

Jes (1:07:21)
I love where it is right now and that I have people who comment and people who like my stuff that they're like, I feel seen. And that's really what I want it to be. It's just for people to say, me too, I feel seen, I feel like my feelings are not, I'm not the only one who feels this way. And so that's why I write so openly, honestly and vulnerably because

I wanted that. I need that. I need someone to be able to say, you're not the only one who feels that way. Like me too. I feel seen. So yeah. So that's kind of, that's kind of NICU Mama hood. I feel like it's not perfect. It's not, I mean, I said to you before we started, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just doing it, but I'm just doing it. And so it is what it is.

Chelsea (1:08:10)
That's exactly how I feel.

Well, I'll add to that. So I didn't have a NICU experience. My second daughter is what they called her a NICU drive by.

Jes (1:08:16)
Yeah.

Chelsea (1:08:27)
So she was only in there for a few hours before we were reunited. So I don't consider myself a NICU mom or anything like that, but your content still resonates with me so much. I think you're reaching people beyond NICU families because it's so relatable and because it's so honest and it is vulnerable. And I...

Jes (1:08:32)
Okay.

Mm

Chelsea (1:08:55)
find so much strength in vulnerability. So I would definitely encourage listeners to check it out whether you had a NICU experience or not, but definitely especially if you had a NICU experience. Because yeah, what you're posting is not only informative,

Jes (1:09:00)
Yeah.

Chelsea (1:09:15)
It is real. It's your real experiences and you're just such a cool person. you're just well, seriously, like, mean, I don't even know how to word this properly. There are there are a few people that I've met through this journey that are just genuinely good people and want to cheer other people on. And you are one of those people.

Jes (1:09:20)
thank you.

Thank you.

Chelsea (1:09:40)
But yeah, I love what you're doing. Everything will be linked in the show notes. Listeners, check the show notes so that you can find Jes and NICU Mama Hood.

But yeah, rather than literally take your entire day away from you, we're gonna have to just chat again sometime. But thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for taking the time to share part of your journey with me. And I'm super excited to see where this journey takes both of us.

Jes (1:09:56)
I'm not again.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been it's been really good to talk to you. And like I said, I like we've been or like we said, we've been talking on Instagram, I like commented on your mug the other day. And I like, I don't know, we just talk all the time. Just randomly. Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:10:29)
the whole premise behind this behind Quiet Connection is like, you're not alone and how we all feel alone and how motherhood is supposed to come with this village and this community and it just doesn't. We have to build it ourselves. And like you're part of my village now. Like you are like because for that's it. Because yeah, like you're like, that's a really cute mug. Hey, thanks. I founded a TJ Maxx. Like or like or like I see what your kids are doing. It's like, my God. Yay. You're like things like, you know what I mean? So

Jes (1:10:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (1:10:59)
Social media can be really crappy and really awful, but it can also be, if you're careful about it and you curate and set boundaries, it can be a really great place to build your community. So thanks for being a part of mine.

Jes (1:11:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, thank you!

Chelsea (1:11:19)
Thank you, Jes, for sharing your story with me and for being an amazing advocate for the NICU community. I'm so grateful that our paths crossed and I love having you in my mama circle. I'm excited to see where your journey takes you. Listeners, be sure to check the show notes to find links to all of Jes's social media accounts. You can keep up with us on Quiet Connection by following us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at Quiet Connection podcast.

You can help our community grow by leaving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify and consider sharing our episodes on social media. To share your personal journey, you can contact us through our website at quietconnectionpodcast .com or by email at quietconnectionppmh at gmail .com. Join us next time when another story is told and you realize you are not alone. I see you.