J.D. - Navigating Fatherhood Through a Montessori Lens

In this episode, JD shares his unique perspective on parenting shaped by his Montessori upbringing and teaching experience. He emphasizes the importance of compassion, communication, and emotional intelligence in parenting. JD discusses the challenges of mental health, both for parents and children, and the significance of recognizing and validating feelings. He also reflects on his journey to fatherhood, the impact of postpartum mental health, and the need for open conversations about emotions.

JD is a fellow podcaster and story collector! Be sure to check out his work, all collected in one space: Not Today Media

Takeaways

• Parenting is a journey filled with learning and growth.
• Montessori education influences JD's parenting style.
• Emotional intelligence is crucial for both parents and children.
• Postpartum mental health is often overlooked for non-birthing partners.
• Communication is key in relationships and parenting.
• Children need to learn to express their emotions.
• Recognizing others' existence can have a profound impact.
• It's important to validate children's feelings and experiences.
• JD emphasizes the importance of being present and aware in parenting.
• Every interaction can be an opportunity to connect with others.

Sound Bites

• "I don't call myself an expert."
• "It's okay not to be okay."
• "You can't force them to share."

Transcript

Chelsea (00:00)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. This week, I'm connecting with JD, who shares his unique perspective on parenting that has been shaped by his Montessori upbringing and teaching experience. JD is also a fellow mental health podcaster and advocate, helping others around the world to tell their stories and be seen and heard.

Throughout our time together, the common thread is clear. Parenting is a journey filled with learning, growth, and the necessity of compassion towards yourself and others. Here's JD.

Chelsea (00:42)
Today I'm here with JD. JD, how are you?

J.D. (00:45)
we're doing well for a Monday here. It does. It absolutely does. I like Mondays though. Like I'm the one that's like, it doesn't matter. Like, you know, if you changed it, like it's still going to have the same feeling. So why not just embrace it?

Chelsea (00:48)
Yeah, it is. It's - does it feel like a Monday? It feels like a Monday.

J.D. (01:03)
But definitely like since having kids like then I get that I understand it a little bit differently like you know you're excited after a weekend and then like it hits them that like this is not a weekend anymore. Yeah. Yep. Yep. So it's not. So you have to find a way to like make it different. So I still enjoy it for the most part.

Chelsea (01:09)
I feel that.

No, especially if you're a stay -at -home parent or if you work from home. It's not different.

Well, that's good. Maybe I'll try to adopt that outlook. I'll

try that on and see how goes.

J.D. (01:30)
It's like another, it's like

for me, it's, simply just a chance to, to pick up what I didn't, you know, get a chance to last week, whether that's something work wise or, you know, personal wise, or, or even just something like emotionally, like, you know, it's like, okay, I was a little bit on edge, you know, towards the end of last week, let's not do that again. And so it's like a reset button, like not like last week didn't happen basically is how I look at it. I don't know where that mantra has come from. I don't know what.

Chelsea (01:55)
I like it.

J.D. (01:57)
I think I may be like my teacher brain still coming in every once in a while. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

Chelsea (02:00)
I was gonna say, I was gonna say, well, that leads perfectly into how I found you.

You have many names on social media. You go by many different things. I initially found you as the Montessori dad. And I was like, yes, this is like my person. Like I...

J.D. (02:09)
Yeah

Yeah.

No way.

Chelsea (02:22)
Well, no, I love love Montessori to begin with. I'm also an educator or I was a special educator. So I was just like, yes, but you are doing amazing things and I could list it all off here. But what would be much better is if you could sort of introduce yourself and let me know who you were before you were a dad.

J.D. (02:34)
Mmm. god. No!

Sure.

who I was before I a dad. man. Yikes, that's fun. I like that way of asking that question. It does sound complicated, but I actually do a pretty good job in my own head at least of making sure it all makes sense because I can't process.

Chelsea (02:48)
Yeah.

You

J.D. (03:00)
When someone says like well I do this then you're like wait a minute I thought you did that too and then like you go to find that it's like nowhere to be found that's like wait a minute you are that person so I make sure that like it's not confusing as possible It does go all into the same realm, but before this Well before before what I do work wise and personal wise I was just a guy in the world I've grown up Montessori though, so it still makes sense and that

Chelsea (03:08)
You

Yeah.

Ha ha ha!

J.D. (03:27)
is not a fact that I take lightly, because it's not something that's always possible.

Chelsea (03:33)
Mm -hmm.

J.D. (03:33)
For a lot of people and it's almost seems and I hate to like, you know knock on Montessori but it almost seems out of reach for a lot of like situations for people because it does Fall under the realm of private school Mostly my wife is a perfect example. I met her as a Montessori teacher eventually and she taught in a public school system, but it was still It wasn't a public Montessori middle school It was like it was like a special program and these kids somehow got selected to do it. Don't ask that one, but

Chelsea (03:45)
Mm -hmm.

J.D. (04:03)
I have somehow managed to be Montessori predominantly my whole life until I was like high school and that's really just because there was not an option for that but my dad

Chelsea (04:12)
Mm

J.D. (04:14)
when I was, you know, ready for school or ready for some kind of like aftercare. he's the one who found Montessori and he's the wall street stockbroker, is what, how he grew up. And that's how we met my mom on wall street as accountants. And it's my mom who up until about six months ago, seven months ago, has been a Montessori teacher or director here for probably the last 20 years of her life. So she kind of was like, okay, well, this is.

Chelsea (04:25)
Wow.

Gosh.

J.D. (04:43)
don't want to just send my kids, or kids eventually there. I'd like to do this. So it's kind of always been embodied in me. so I don't call myself an expert. I don't even know what that means when it comes to Montessori. I mean, I've certainly been certified when I was a middle school teacher for 10 years. But even that was always weird to me because it's it's a life philosophy.

I'm explaining who I am. Just for anybody listening, it's like, where is he going? It does beautifully tie in. It's a life philosophy for me. And it encompasses a lot of what I am now, for sure, as a dad and as a husband, as a human being. But if I look back, it's a lot of what's informed my own life and just my own processing of things that have happened in life that you realize how connected things are.

I let's see, I haven't been teaching for about eight years now, but it's still...

Chelsea (05:37)
Yeah.

J.D. (05:39)
I mean, we obviously see it with two kids, but I didn't teach those kids, those aged kids. We were trained so that we knew what, you know, kids coming into a middle school adolescent realm were, you know, taught if they came through a Montessori, but this is like, you know, what was going on. So that's still new to me. You know, like my son will come home and I use him as the example, because he's got all these like math and grammar things coming at him. But even when...

He was a toddler. My wife would look at me and like, have you ever done that work? I'm like, not a clue. I mean, maybe, but I mean, I don't remember it to the capacity of like, what's that skill? And then I, I turned to my mom and like he's learning to sound out letters or he's like, what was he doing? Like number rods. So he's picturing like these square rods that are like blue and red for anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about. They're blue and red and they're different lengths. So they're different counts. And so he starts by matching them

from smallest to biggest, your math, air quotes there. And that's really all it is, is just looking at it as like, know, perception and sizes, but you have no idea that you're doing math. That's why I had no clue what that was actually doing. So even though it's been my life, it's still not. But then...

as I began to realize what I enjoy in life and what I enjoyed especially about teaching was not the academic side and I used to joke when kids came into my class that never been in a Montessori environment like to explain that and I said well you know it comes with a lot of eye rolls when I said it but

You know, here in our, in our, our, our classroom, academics kind of come second. It's the life skills that come first. Because if you can't, and we're talking middle school, so, you know, a syllabus, you know, reading a textbook for some kids for the first time is for some of them ever seen one. note taking, you know, highlighting in books, all those things that like, you know, perceiving the world, if you can't do that, it doesn't matter if you know, two plus two or, you know, a history lesson, right? So if I look back at the

Things that I enjoyed about teaching it was those life things. The life lessons, the explaining the world, the kid that was all of sudden next to my desk and I'm asking, know, like, you know, ether, are you okay? And he's like, yeah, I just wanted to sit next to you, Mr. Margolo. You're right though. Yeah, I just wanted someplace else to sit instead of, you around my friends. And I got that kid because I don't like to be around people. So much of what I do now is that same story.

So I have two different realms. The mental health side of it falls into the community aspect of what possibly the adult needs more than the child. But nothing different, really. We just understand a lot more, obviously, than the four -year -old or the toddler or the teenager. You just kind of grow with your understanding of what words and meanings and emotions mean. But...

it still ties into the fact that, you know, it's the life that I've lived centers around, you know, just finding meaning and finding a calm, like understanding, like a compassionate and grace is what I kind of like, you know, focus on when it comes to the adult side of it. And the podcast that I host soon to be four

all tie in together. All tie in together in the sense that they're stories. Everybody has a story. Some a little bit more specific than others. You know, I don't prescribe to the notion that it has to be traumatic before it, you know, becomes a life lesson because your version of traumatic is going to be way different than mine. We just like to hear those stories because it's like, that didn't happen to me, thank goodness, but it maybe did. So they're

Chelsea (08:49)
I know you have so many.

J.D. (09:17)
They kind of fall naturally. don't feel like work to me because I, as you're finding out now, as I'm just introducing myself, I love to talk. And I know that other people do too. It just may not be exactly what you want it to be. And that's okay.

You know, I don't think that a story is powerful just because you told everything that you needed to say about it. There's things that you get to keep, you know, it's just by yourself and, you know, maybe just, you know, somebody close to you, but still falls under the same category that it's life that you're living and there's humans involved and there's a connectedness involved. The dad part is just kind of new and it's...

It's really just fun for me most days, even though I get angry just like everybody else and frustrated. I mean, I did just this morning, look at my son trying to explain that, listen, you need to put the blinking Halloween decoration down for a second so you can have your breakfast. It's a daily battle with him to get changed. He's like, I just want to play. I'm like, dude, if you just got changed, you'd have so much more time. Don't you understand this after four years?

At the end of the day, what I think I've like figured out at least is that there's something that I'm missing. Like all those quotes that you're like, whatever's triggering you, that's what you need to heal from. I can at tell you that I believe that. Cause I'm the one who'll go to bed and sit there and go, okay, that was pretty dumb to act that way.

What did he actually mean? And you know, we have a two year old too. was she actually? She's confusing. She's gonna be the confusing one for the rest of my life. And I'm okay with that, but that's my lesson somewhere in there. Like she embodies every frustration I probably had with every girlfriend, every drama -filled female in my life that I can tell you I've always frustrated because I'm not attracted to that. How do I become attracted to that? Because she's my daughter. So you're gonna tumble and fall and do all the toddler things that your son, your brother did.

Chelsea (10:45)
You

J.D. (11:07)
How do I take a breath and learn that you're just the same, you know, along with that? So there's who I am and there's what I do. to me, I mean, it all I don't I don't look at them and go, I got to do all this different things. I got to post this different here. But they say that different there. It's all the same to me. And that's taken a lot of work to get to and find it like, you know, that there's an umbrella that maybe it all falls on and they feel like a lot of little things.

But I guess that's my version. You know, like if it feels like work, then you're not doing it right. Like that's my version of it. It's like, it's like, it's my life just bottled up in some way, different form. And so I selfishly was like doing a lot of these things for me. But I know that other people connected in some way, shape or form. So, yeah.

Chelsea (11:39)
Yeah.

I call it selfish selflessness.

J.D. (11:58)
Yeah, healthy selfishness actually is how I usually phrase that. used to say that with like kids, but yeah, same thing. Exactly. See?

Chelsea (12:03)
I like that.

Yeah. Well, because it's very similar. We're both story collectors. I think it really shines through. Like I said, you have different podcasts that you host and social media handles associated with those. But throughout...

J.D. (12:09)
Yeah.

Chelsea (12:20)
them all, what's interconnected and the message that really shines through is like you just care. You care about people and you care about mental health. You care about kids' mental health. You care about just people's mental health. And it's beautiful. like for anyone listening who obviously like can't see like

J.D. (12:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (12:43)
I don't know if this is just my perception, like every time I've met with you and chatted with you, you're just chill. You're just so chill. Like, I mean, I It's Okay.

J.D. (12:49)
It's probably because I'm sitting in my bedroom right now so my brain is fired that way. No.

It's a lot of effort, I will tell you that. And it's not a... And it's something I have to work hard at. And it's not because I lose it and I've spent years losing it. I'm a super patient person, but...

Lord help me. I'm not necessarily, and it's like mind blowing sometimes, I'm like, why in the world is that stressing you out? And so again, I I'm aware of those things, so it makes me pause, but I've, I don't know, I'm quick to get frustrated, you know, at little things, but I'm also quick to realize like, you just got frustrated at a little thing. And how do we fix that? And how do we not necessarily make it not happen again?

Chelsea (13:11)
you

J.D. (13:36)
But how do you kind of manage it differently?

I mean, even if you don't have kids, you can see right away, hopefully somebody got impacted by the way you did that. I just get this gift that I have two kids that make it very clear, actions, not even words that they're doing. you have to bite your tongue because you're like, no, no, no, don't say it like that. you're like, you said it like that, you idiot. That's why they're doing that. Like our two -year -old, and I think it was me just getting down on my, like on their level.

Chelsea (13:58)
Yeah.

J.D. (14:05)
And just didn't want to like kneel down on the ground. So I kind of like leaned over and I wasn't like, like shaking my like, like, you know, like squinting my, but I my finger and I was like, guys, and I'm Italian. So my hands are pointing at someone. was like, guys, you can't do that. You know, it's still a gentle voice, but I was like, on the level. My daughter was looking at our son and I don't even know what, I don't even know what she would, but she was doing this and she wasn't saying anything. I'm like, you idiot, you idiot. Like she's, it's cute. Damn it. But no, you can't. That's.

Chelsea (14:16)
Yes!

you

J.D. (14:33)
All right, let's change that, you know, so.

You know, it's that. That's what helps me calm. It's just my own, and that's a lifelong thing. I don't know what parent gave me that one, but thank you. It's just a realization of what you are, who you are, and the fact that anything, anything, from the greeting that you didn't give the checkout person to the, you know, the kindness that you showed your, you know, spouse or son or dog, you know, all of that has this ripple effect. And I am keenly aware of that, I think.

might my one redeeming quality some days is that I'm just at least aware of that and then, you know, will work as long as I need to to figure out how to not have that happen as awful as it did before. Yeah, it is. I mean, I will definitely tell you that it's like the low end of like being egotistical, think, because I'm just like that I've been that and I know that doesn't work at all for me in the long run.

Chelsea (15:18)
I'm gonna call that your superpower. I'm sure you have a lot of... yeah.

J.D. (15:32)
people definitely get shut out and I, know, choices are just not as great as they could be. And you realize how stray you are from like your family. And that's something that's always been ingrained in me is whatever you do, like your family is impacted as well, big or small, but you're tied to them no matter what, no matter what, no matter how hard you try to push away, you are still like, that's still your last name, that's still who gave birth to you.

they're going to hurt too. And if you have any bit of empathy, you'll realize that seeing your parents cry or seeing your kids cry because you did something, not fun, you know? So.

Chelsea (16:08)
No.

Not well and that all of that kind of lends itself beautifully to my next big question. did you always envision yourself being a dad? No, that shocks me.

J.D. (16:21)
No. No. But not...

Very quick. But not the complete opposite either. I wasn't like, yeah, no, I never want to be a dad. Dang it. I have a son now. It was kind of just... And my wife is the same way. And that's possibly...

can trace mine back before being a teacher. I worked at retail for like 10 years and like, and I used to joke, know, you'd have these kids come in and they were fine. Like no problem, no being a kid. But then you had the kid that was just like screaming and like, know, clothes would go on the floor. And I joke, it'd be like, well, that's reason number 592. I don't want kids.

Chelsea (16:58)
You

J.D. (16:59)
But it was just that. mean, I can distinctly remember throughout my life, I've never had this conversation of like, don't ever want kids. And my mom never was like, are you going to have kids someday? Please tell me you're going to. She's like that with my brother, but that's my fault because I have to. never put like doesn't like, know, Dustin has a name and I'm going to call him out. But never like on him in the sense of like, Dustin, like you really should have kids. It's just, you know, it's just like a

mom, being a mom naturally. But it's the same way of being married. I didn't have this like, I can't wait to be married, I can't wait to have a, you know, a significant other. It wasn't, you know, just neither kind of here, there, it was just kind of where does life land? And then my wife, I mean as much as I know about that that side of her, I mean we don't have these deep conversations like that all the time, although we do, but...

We never, never like got married and we're like, okay, well step two here, when do you think we're gonna have kids? It just really was like, you know, I'd like to start a family and you know, what do we do about that? And what do we need to think about? And it wasn't like an obsessed, you know, thought process of, okay, well, here's how much money we make, here's where we live, we should probably move. It was just kind of there.

Chelsea (17:59)
Yeah.

J.D. (18:15)
And like, mean, and it sounds like no way, but it really is. I mean, we really didn't have this huge conversation. was like, yep, I love you more than I thought ever possible. What do we want to do next with this world that we live in? You know, I mean, we have those conversations like this is an awful world. Some days I don't want to bring a kid into that. But then you, you know, the flip side of it was like, well.

It's our job, you know, to kind of help them navigate, not protect them, but navigate the world. So, you know, let's see what happens. And the number two was even more kind of like a less thought, maybe a little bit in the sense of like, okay, this is...

financially what does that look like but it wasn't a worry in the sense of like I don't think we can do this but I really want it wasn't it wasn't you know like like a complete like dive in the other direction but just enough of a thought that it was like okay hold on a second but that didn't matter it didn't matter because even as much as I would have liked to have thought about it but even with one child you know or two it didn't change the other no idea was coming so

Chelsea (19:24)
No, you never, you just can't.

You don't know what's coming.

J.D. (19:27)
The

second child, our daughter had a little bit more thought just for that because it was like, you know, not necessarily like, do you want to have another child or not? It was like, what does it mean? I guess is the best way to put it. We really, I mean, we did it because, you know, we both were okay with that. We both have, well, she has an older sister. I have a younger brother, but we're, you know, one of two. So we're familiar with that family dynamic. And it was really the second biggest thought was for our son, you know, that we...

We thought like him having a sibling and a best friend would be great. And then it was like, okay, we're both, both of us have siblings that are five years apart. And we know what that looks like. And it was like, you we'd like them to be closer together. So it was like that kind of thought, but it wasn't a, I don't know. I don't want another kid. Do we really need to do this? It was never, you know, two sides of the thought. really had the same.

Same thought process. So wasn't a hard no of like, yeah, no. fact, I just said it like just a couple days ago to my wife that it was like, and we just, I would have never thought like you could, if you would ask me 10 years ago, I'd have been like, yeah, no, I'm not gonna be a dad. There's no way. But then I also, if you'd, know, ask me if I didn't wanna be, I would have been like, yeah, well, it sounds like, I mean, I'd love to, you know? So it was never, it was a kind of nice in between, you know, of really like just mentally preparing yourself, but then not at all.

Chelsea (20:48)
Yeah, but that's like so, it's very on brand. like you were open to it. You were open to it. Yeah, so I think that's a really healthy way to approach bringing kids into the world.

J.D. (20:52)
Yeah, exactly. There you go.

I think so.

mean, and it probably stands for a lot of like big conversations that if you really have to like have this huge amount of thought, then maybe this isn't what you need to be doing. Certainly things lend themselves to a little bit. Like, you know, I don't believe in this whole like leap of faith kind of thing.

Chelsea (21:22)
Mm -hmm.

J.D. (21:23)
You do have to have some, mean, you probably did. You just didn't realize it, like working yourself up to making that, that big conversation or big jump, but it really wasn't because you've been working towards something like that. It's just, I don't know. I think if you have to really like stress and think about it, then like, don't do it, you know, whatever it is, because it's only going to like persist, you know, you have to find like a level of calm somewhere in there. And then cause

Chelsea (21:43)
Maybe it's not the time.

J.D. (21:53)
Who knows what happens? Am I going to tell you that the works for the case with parenting? I could see that if I really didn't want to have kids, I could speak for myself, obviously better than my wife.

It just wouldn't, you you'd constantly anything that they did that irritated you even the slightest, that's where your head's gonna go for sure. You know, and be like, see, I didn't even want the kid, you know, like, and that's not fair at all. So it's like, if you don't have this middle ground or calm sense to whatever this big decision is gonna be, don't do it. Cause that thought's gonna keep popping up forever.

Chelsea (22:26)
Yeah, for sure. When we had talked initially, you had sort of mentioned kind of that like in terms of mental health, like, and again, correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like you had said the pregnancies were pretty standard.

And then you, your wife may have experienced a little bit of like mental health challenges after birth. Was that with both kiddos?

J.D. (22:52)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

not so much with our son. The experience we had with relatively normal, two different experiences just because of two different hospital systems, both within the same state, both very at the top of their game when it comes to health. We won't name any names. Wild to see, nonetheless, what the difference between public and private health is. But.

Chelsea (22:58)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

J.D. (23:20)
What kind of got me on the realm of like, especially when it comes to dad's mental health was being in the hospital with our son. And it wasn't anything glaring that was like, I have to always be careful because I forget what I posted the other day that I had to really think about how I was wording this because I'm by far not the sexiest person at all. But I'm very keenly aware of

Chelsea (23:41)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

J.D. (23:44)
you know, how things can be like perceived, you know, when you have those feelings. And I think I said something along the lines of, had something to do with the fact that like, so I'm the default parent and I don't know where that term comes from, but.

Chelsea (23:46)
Mm -hmm.

J.D. (23:55)
I've only recently figured out that that's what that's called. But I'm the default parent and there was no, no conversation. It was like, this is my life and this is what I do. Yeah, I'll stay home. And I enjoyed it, no matter how struggle it was, but now having two of them, and I don't spend as much time with two of them as I did with the one, one on one, but I am responsible for...

Chelsea (23:58)
Yeah, and it's typically...

J.D. (24:19)
everything mom related, Society deems this like what the mom should do. And so, you know, over time I've become like aware of, you know, like how that feels and what that looks like, even more so. But when we began this journey there in the hospital,

Chelsea (24:23)
Yeah.

J.D. (24:37)
even just the questions that they asked my wife and she is very level -headed. She has to be for her job, number one. She has a pain in the ass for her husband, so there's number two. And she has two kids, so she is super level -headed. And the questions on there, I don't remember exactly what they were, but it was like, about like crying within the past.

Chelsea (24:50)
my god.

J.D. (25:01)
some ridiculous amount of time, like hour or two hours or something, probably a little bit longer than that, but still within the realm of the fact that you just gave birth. It wasn't like last week or like, you know, four months ago. It was like within the past couple hours of like, you you giving birth and both of us had the same look on our face. Cause she was, I was reading him out loud to her cause our son was there with us.

Chelsea (25:11)
Yeah.

J.D. (25:26)
He wasn't off getting checked out before because this is like as you're about to leave kind of things, right? And I said it to her and she looked at me and she's like just answer no Because I know that if I if I answer yes, it's gonna do X Y and Z and she knew that she didn't need that level of intervention and I am aware of enough that I wasn't like

Chelsea (25:30)
Yeah.

J.D. (25:48)
I don't know if I feel comfortable answering that. I was comfortable knowing that, like, I knew what she meant and I knew that she would be okay. But it was just so strange to ask that question to somebody, because I could see anybody else being asked that question and going a lot of different directions, right? Not knowing how to answer that and then just spitting something out.

Chelsea (25:52)
Mm

J.D. (26:08)
saying yes and maybe getting some kind of interview. I don't even know what that would have like implied. She, my wife knew some version of that but probably like nothing because that's not what she does. But she knew enough that it was going to like send her down this road that was not going to be helpful really. So I could see it going a lot of different you know directions. So that's what triggered me at least on the sense of just the whole conversation around postpartum not even like you know dad or mom version of it.

Chelsea (26:18)
Yeah.

J.D. (26:35)
but just how easy it was to kind of like write it off, I guess the best way to say it. And that was like, it was weird to me, it felt weird. But then, you know, as time has gone on here, and like this is what I do, like, I mean, we can, can remember several conversations, you know, as my son was, I say younger, he's only gonna be four, you know, when he's like one, two, and here we are, just, you know, just the three of us.

Chelsea (26:41)
Mm -hmm.

I know he's still a little guy.

J.D. (27:02)
And my wife would ask me on walks or something like that if I'm okay. I could tell you, I was very stressed out at moments. Because here I am having to do some version of this. This is a lot more than I used to do. But having to find my own identity as work or just who I am now versus what I could do before a child. And then here I am responsible for all these things that I've never done. And even when the second one came along, I thought I knew everything.

at least and I knew nothing still so you know it's that's what's kind of caught me on on that round but I'm not the I'm certainly not the one that like you know you know you have really like other people posting like dads wise and they're like you know dad should be heard too and blah blah blah and like you know it's not that for me it's it's kind of like the the the more basic end of it they're like

Chelsea (27:33)
You

J.D. (27:55)
you know like like i yeah it's been months now like if it was like the post of like somebody was like it was like all these like words popping up of like why dad wouldn't be okay and it was like a voiceover and somebody asked like are you okay and he like the guy looks up

Chelsea (28:03)
Yeah.

J.D. (28:07)
And he goes, yeah, I'm OK. I'm like, no, that right there. Like, that's where I'm at. Like, no, you're not OK. And it's that version that society has. And I forget. So I forget now what I posted. it was, I mean, it was just last week. And I was sitting there really thinking about it. In fact, I shared some version of it, like with my brother, just to see if he'd come back and be like, dude,

Chelsea (28:12)
Yeah.

J.D. (28:29)
Not telling him that's what I was going to do with it and he didn't say anything. I'm like, okay, sorry, where did that like semi okay? But it was that it was like I feel everything that a stay at home mom by American society would feel But it's like I'm here's where it gets touchy. It's like I'm not allowed to feel that because I am dad

And it's like American society version of that is like nine to five. Like I come home, you know, where's the dinner? I'm probably exaggerating a lot of it because dads really aren't always like that. But you know what I mean? But it's not like I want to be. It's not like I want to like, you know, like men should feel this too. Like women shouldn't feel. It's not that I don't even explain it. You know what I mean? It's just like there is versions of it there. I'm you know, certainly I did not give birth. So there's a whole nother level there. It's not that. But that that's the part of like

Chelsea (28:58)
That's that's the picture that

Yeah.

J.D. (29:18)
the dad side of mental health that I'm at. It's just...

Like not being okay and being okay with saying that versus like having this weight of like, and I can still feel the looks and I'm here I am. I get it every morning when I drop both kids off at school. Cause don't do that just yet, but like both of them. Here I am like covered in tattoos. I have no care what car I'm driving. You know, if I did my hair, like this is it. This is what I woke up as, right? I, know, what I'm wearing, it's usually some kind of plain t -shirt and shorts and I'm wearing like Toms

Chelsea (29:44)
Yeah.

J.D. (29:51)
I don't care what I look like getting out of the car and I could see most dads are just like Where's your suit and tie? Like where's your expedition? Where's the?

you know, why is your kid not bundled and like drop off in the rain is the perfect example of where we're at when it comes to parenting. Cause it's like, you feel like super protective mode. And here I am just walking across streets. It's like sprinkling, not parked in front of the school. Two kids, four and two like in my hand, like I could feel it. And I've always felt it that it's like, no, that's not dad. Like you should be like super swooped. No, like this is me. This is dad. Like I...

I have to watch that. This is the phrase that my son catches me on. I don't care. But what I really mean is it doesn't bother me. Because that's not the version that I am. And that's not the version we should be, male or female, is that things like that bother you It should just be like, no, this is where I'm at. And this is what I feel. Because, mean, here's the long story of it. My kids are going to feel that. So.

Chelsea (30:33)
Exactly.

J.D. (30:51)
If I'm not telling, if I'm looking at them, you know, and I'm stressed out and I'm sure they can figure it out now, or one of them can, if I'm not comfortable saying that I'm not okay now, what are they going to do? I can't sit there and be like, you know, he's got a bump on his knee or she's crying and she doesn't know why. The version that is the answer that you're not okay, what that looks like as a parent then is the one that's telling you to just deal with it and let it go and move on and stop

crying or it's just a scrap. That's the version that comes out then. Whereas the other side of it where I'm telling them that I am feeling uncomfortable, they're going to find they're going to actually tell me. And I mean, I can tell you that works for sure. I mean, my son will tell you because his sister pushed him that it hurt his feelings. And you're just like, well, she's halfway across the room. But something hurt his feelings. And, you know, so it's like that.

Chelsea (31:42)
You

J.D. (31:49)
is where I'm at with it when it comes to being dad's mental health. It's not the, you know, dad should be at home cooking, you know, taking care of people like mental health. It's the version of just being okay with the emotions that go along with that. society just doesn't, doesn't want that to be, you know.

Chelsea (32:06)
Yeah, and what you did, whether you realized it or not, is you answered the unasked question.

J.D. (32:12)
No.

Chelsea (32:13)
so when I, had initially asked about your wife and was going to lead into you and how you felt about, because first and foremost, there is not enough.

care and consideration given to the postpartum person in general. There is even less care and consideration given to the non -birthing partner, whether that be dad, whether that be mom number two, dad number two, whatever.

J.D. (32:37)
Correct. Correct, right? Yeah.

Chelsea (32:42)
even you just recounting, like reading, it's called the Edinburgh Scale. I know exactly what you're talking about and it's garbage and I hate it.

J.D. (32:46)
Yeah.

She's

an oncology nurse for the hospital, one of the hospitals that our kids were born in. So she had a little bit more of an understanding as where I was going, that, you know, of what possibly that means and knows that it's not gonna go anywhere. Yeah.

Chelsea (32:57)
Mm -hmm.

It wouldn't go anywhere.

More often than not, they would just say, okay, well, make sure you're drinking enough water and make sure you get some sleep. exactly. But why doesn't dad get a rating scale? Why doesn't partner get checked in with? Why don't the parents as a unit get like that?

J.D. (33:15)
Right. Talk to your mental health professional if you need to. Thank you for playing.

Yeah.

Chelsea (33:35)
sit

down talk to like, okay, how are you feeling right now? You guys just had a huge major life change. You literally, I mean, you didn't literally birth the child, but you both just brought a human into the world. Where are you at? How you doing? And you have

J.D. (33:40)
Yeah.

No.

Yeah. And what's

the, there's gotta be like a, you know, like the kid has a, you know, a check -in, you know, physically, right? Every, you know, and then it's like, eventually it's gone. And then it's like every year.

Chelsea (34:00)
Like out the first week and then two weeks. Yeah

J.D. (34:05)
But even if she answered yes, there's not going to be another, there's going to be maybe one or two conversations, maybe another professional down the line when you have a follow -up appointment, you'll get a great pediatrician that's like, so how are you doing, mom? And that would be OK. I don't care if you ask me the question there. it doesn't bother me if you ask me at that point. But somebody, because we're connected, but I don't know. mean, think it's almost like we're like,

Chelsea (34:24)
It doesn't bother you. Yeah.

J.D. (34:33)
Like if dad got angry, I hate it. I've never been that person, but like it's like it was saying in beginning, like there's things that trigger me and I'm like, dang it. Like, what was that? Like, why did you even, he has no idea what he's doing. Like he's tired right now. Like of course he just toppled over his sister, you know, or threw a block or whatever. So, but it's like almost like I'm allowed.

Chelsea (34:52)
Yeah.

J.D. (34:55)
to be angry because like I'm the dude in this situation or like it's like I'm allowed to not be like and I don't like that like I hate that like thought process that's there that's like no but then I hate the other version of it's like you you have like the dad feels like he has to be like super dad or it's like you know you're emotionally in touch and you're physically there and doing everything when you come that's not sustainable either that wouldn't be sustainable who you are you know so it's like you're right like where is that where is that extra conversation now it's like I'd like to think of all

Chelsea (35:10)
Yeah.

Mm -mm.

J.D. (35:25)
the time when you like just the mental health conversation all together it's fun and and catchy to say it's okay not to be okay that's step one but that's been step one for a long time now the next step is what do do with that and that's not gonna be a quick answer that's gonna take a long time but you have to answer that now you know we're at that point that

Chelsea (35:37)
Hmm.

J.D. (35:47)
I just saw something, I don't know who it was, before we got on this, I was like switching over like my, you make me sound like I have a lot of social media profiles and I...

Like, I'm like not Mr. Social Media at all, but it definitely feels like it. You know, when I switch over, like I don't scroll, but whatever's on top, that's obviously what's going to catch my eye. And it was some post from some, some parenting thing that I follow, but it was like a woman sitting on a toilet and she was in tears and it was like a medical bag near, don't know. I didn't even read the caption other than the fact that it was like postpartum something, something.

Chelsea (35:58)
You just have a couple. Just a couple. Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

J.D. (36:18)
And I'm

like, was a really cool picture. That's not real. Somebody posed for that one. But like, well, now what do you do with that? Like 900 people had already liked that. It was only like 30 minutes, but it's like, what did those 900 people get from that? Yeah, I feel you. And then they go on their day or yeah, I get it. I need to do something about that. And that's the part that now we need to.

Chelsea (36:38)
Yeah.

J.D. (36:41)
Right, mean, whoever you are, whether you're the birth parent or you adopted that parent, neither one of you, know, everybody's gonna experience some version, because you have no idea what you were getting into, really, in the end.

Chelsea (36:52)
None of us do. Parenting is the ultimate mystery.

J.D. (36:55)
Yeah.

My wife feels it. No, so I'll answer that one in little bit more detail. You're right. I didn't quite get to where she's at now. Because we do have a second one. She's in a different spot with the second one than she was. Not way off base, but the mom guilt has definitely kicked in. two years and another child. But the mom guilt kicked in. And partly, it's the way that our daughter came into the world. Normal everything other than.

Chelsea (37:02)
No, but I like

Mmm.

J.D. (37:22)
It's my fault I have a high palate, which I didn't realize for 40 years until her daughter was born. Actually 41, if we're being technical.

that she has a high palate and she was not, and our son kind of did too, and they, it's weird, there's a good comparison of conversations and how you were just kind of ready to be done. They were done with you in the hospital. He kind of had something, they had a little bit of like help as far as like ways to position him and you know, figure out how to latch and blah, blah, blah. And that was important to us. But she didn't and she couldn't. So she had a very, very challenging first week. We were just looking at pictures the other night

memories from Google photos like here's 12 years ago I was like well I didn't remember doing that 12 years ago I wish I was there but it was like a picture of her and it was like night and day from like the first couple days to the time and we had to take her to the ER because she just was not I mean we had had a conversation it was like you know took a week but we had conversations with pediatricians you do the you know 24 -hour follow -up all that and it was like they didn't even catch it until it was like too much and

She had lot of intervention for a good couple months there of how to even just get her to, you know, be able to position. She didn't breastfeed, she had breast milk, but we had to lay her on the bed, like on her side, like with a bottle. And there's a disconnect there for mom, even though she's absolutely like understood that this is what's gonna happen, because my child's safety and health is important. But her first week for both of them was traumatic. And you see it with everything that my wife does with our daughter.

And certainly, can tell you having a younger brother, he definitely gets a little bit more lenient conversation. If I said half the things that I said that he says to mom, even at 40 and 35, or 35 and 30, it's like, what? If I did that or said that, you would just have me yelling one way up the other. So I understand that, but like.

Chelsea (39:09)
Yeah.

J.D. (39:19)
everything that happens, like it's way more sensitive, it's way more, I'm to use the word protective very lightly, but it's the only word I got right now, but it's because that moment, it's because of that week, and she knows it, and I gently remind her that, you know, it's okay that that's what that is, but that's why it's there, and if we don't start, it doesn't mean she has to see a professional, it doesn't mean you have to, but you have to at least be understanding of the fact that here's where certain things come from, so you never know, and that's why you can't just let it go and be like, yep.

I'm good. Because would it have come out two years later if we didn't have a daughter? Maybe. You know, as you learn to navigate a different world as the kid grows up. Like I'm the one who drops them off at school. And my wife refused to for day one with our son because she knew what was going to happen. So I get to take that one. But it's like.

Chelsea (39:49)
Yeah, I'm okay.

J.D. (40:10)
I don't like it either. When he cries, I at least know that like the best thing for him is to get the heck out of there, dad. Even though I can see it through the door that he's starting to tear up, you know. But for parents, some parents that's hard. So it's like just being aware of those things and being aware that any day now something could pop up and you have to kind of be ready for it. And ready and ready means how do we manage it? How do we be okay?

Chelsea (40:12)
Yeah

Yeah.

J.D. (40:36)
to do what needs to be done, whatever that means for you, you know?

Chelsea (40:39)
Yeah, and that leads kind of beautifully into my next sort of question about how you guys navigate, how do you and your partner navigate your own mental health while also supporting each other in your mental health journeys as parents and as people?

J.D. (40:53)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

The best quality we ever have for the two of us and long before there were two kids involved in the conversation, we are super great at communicating.

I mean, I, I, I, I, there's my, maybe my second superpower. I know you call that like a second superpower or whatever it is. Obviously, obviously like I have a, I have no problem telling you anything. I'm reserved in the sense like this is maybe something that you want to know, but it's not something you need to know. But when it comes to her, she's going to tell, she's going to hear exactly how I feel and, and, and not like a

Chelsea (41:20)
Add it to your super power tool belt.

You

J.D. (41:40)
you know, and like, this is your fault, this is why I feel, not in the sense of like, know, shush, I'm going to tell you this now. It's truly just a whenever the timing is right. Sometimes I get it wrong that like my kids are right there and I'm telling her that like, you know, this is driving me nuts. But I don't know how to deal with that. You know, I'm four years in, I don't know how to do this with a kid in front of me. I just don't know how be in front of her. I will tell her exactly how I feel. She's not always good at that at first, but she'll get there.

Chelsea (41:47)
Yeah.

You

J.D. (42:07)
And I've, so I know that going in that it's like, yes, that's frustrating me. It's like, could you just not, you know, just brush it off for a moment? Can you just like tell me, but she will just in a different way. So we're great at communicating with each other and great just means that we, know that we need to. It doesn't mean we have this like perfect formula of like, we're going to stop and have a timeout and pause or anything like fancy. It's just, we just know that that's the only thing that's going to happen. And we know that we're just both doing our best.

with it. And she, I I think we know each other fairly well. And that goes back to what you asked about, talking about having kids. I mean, getting married was the same thing. It wasn't like, you want to get married? It wasn't that, was just, yeah, this is where this is going. Here we go.

And so I think our whole life is always just kind of 12 years together. Six years of those married. was just kind of there. And we just kind of took the time to really get to know each other. And we knew ourselves as best you can.

You know, like piece by piece and so it just sits here. So if I Get upset at something, you know, she'll be quick to tell me maybe not in that moment Maybe it's just a kind of alright, like let's just let it go for now. Let's you know And then like that's my cue to like, okay I'm just stop for a second like this is going she'll be quick to tell me that she knows that that's not who I am and so it's not like a Upset that I did something wrong or like you can't be like that blah blah It's like she she knew the next step was yes That was not the right way to do this But the real thing is that that's not who

you are, what's bothering you and vice versa. Like I said, mean, she's the calmest person I know outside of my mom, but it's funny as all get out to watch her get upset at my daughter. And I joke with her all the time that we can't wait till they become teenagers because the two of them, and I'm going to do the same thing with our son. Like he's, we have the same personality. We just don't have this like giant button heads, but it's just so funny to see her with our daughter that like our son didn't flop. He didn't do anything toddler.

And so like now we're seeing it like both with him and her because he sees her and it's like, okay, flopping on the floor works. Maybe. I don't know. Let's try it. but the first time she did it, even he was looking at us like, what's that? Like what happened? Like he looked up at us and we're all like, we were going out the door to go somewhere. And I'm like, I don't dude, I don't know. can you get up the floor though? so, but it's funny. Like she's like, I mean, you know,

Chelsea (44:13)
wow.

Yep.

Yeah.

J.D. (44:38)
The patience level is like shortened with her and that's not who she is and has never been. Even though we're both patient, she's always been like beyond patience with everything. So it's just the recognition of that like, okay, you have reached a level that's not you. How do we walk back and come back to that for the two of us? And ultimately then.

I mean, I'll be the first to tell you you should start taking those quotes like literally like You know the thing that triggers you is thing you need to heal from better. That's not just a fancy quote If you're not watching those things That's where that's really where things are snowballing and going wrong is truly you you know It's it's your lack of understanding of what where space your child is in

Chelsea (45:10)
It's legit.

J.D. (45:23)
what season of life they're in. Did it frustrate you? Yeah, absolutely. But there's a reason why it frustrated you. And to find that is like the, I don't wanna say it's like the magic key, but it's the key to unlocking so much as far as your frustration levels for everybody, really.

Chelsea (45:44)
it's beautiful is like the word that I use so much. So I try to find, I need a thesaurus open to that page because I use beautiful for everything, but I'm just gonna do it again. It's, right? It's beautiful. The relationship that you have, I think.

J.D. (45:55)
Yeah, no, if it works, it works.

Chelsea (46:04)
Communication, you hear it all the time. yeah, communication. Every good relationship is built on good communication. And well, what does that really mean? And what that means for everyone is a little bit different. But what that looks like for you guys is recognizing when it's like, this isn't you. I know you and this isn't you. You have touched on this several times, but to like key in on it a little bit.

J.D. (46:21)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah

Chelsea (46:30)
How do you approach mental health and conversations around emotional well -being and regulation and whatever with your two littles?

J.D. (46:39)
Yeah.

I mean, it's first and foremost, I mean, it goes right back to what we just talking about here, communication. It's just the openness of it. And that's anything.

There's really nothing we shy away from as far as like talking to them. Are there things that we like have to say it a little bit different? Because they're A, just not there, you know, to understand it or B, it's just like that heavy of a topic. We don't have to do this. I'm ready for the silly example just yesterday actually. On the way home from my parents, which we do every Sunday.

There was a giant bug that was like, it's been there for like a good 10 minutes before my son realized there was a bug that was on the windshield. And sure, there's been probably thousands of bugs that have hit our windshield and were on there, but just maybe not that big. And it hit him that like, he realized there was something there and he thought that it was like, I don't know. I think he said rain. I don't know if it was snow. I don't know what he thought it was at first, but like, no, that was a bug. He's like, what's it doing there? I'm like, well, it...

crashed into the car. He understands crash. He crashed into the car and now he's broken. And my wife and my mother -in -law who comes with us every Sunday are just like biting their tongue. And I wasn't trying. I wasn't like, he's talking about death. How do I do it? He's had conversations at school, what's alive. And I don't know if they say dead, but maybe. He knows that that means. My wife's...

dad, father, has been passed away for 12 years now to colorectal cancer. So we've asked for a grandpa, we'll tell him, heaven, but that was like a direct conversation. And it was like, he's like, so, you know, is he gonna go away? I'm like, nope, he's broken. That's where he's gonna be forever. And I had to repeat it because he was tired, but that's where I went with. like later on, my wife was like, did you mean to have this like awkward like death conversation? Like, no, I just.

Chelsea (48:28)
Yeah.

J.D. (48:35)
What am I supposed to say? Like he's just hanging out and he's just stretching? know? Like so how do I answer that? You know? I mean he's he and he tests me all the time about how to answer things like his whys are my favorite thing because it's like okay that's an easy one because you know when you step on the brakes the lights turn on but then otherwise like he'll what did he ask the other day are the clouds moving and I'm like

Chelsea (48:40)
is taking a nap. Yeah.

J.D. (49:01)
So here's the thing, clouds move and so is it. So it's like, you you could get these really big, and it's like, nope, hold on. I can answer that, but give me a second, like how to answer that. So we, with everything, those are fun, silly examples, but everything, you know, the only thing that we'd like kind of like, like, like, I don't want to say like kind of narrow down and not let them do, you know, is like when they get really upset, right? And like, you know, I completely subscribe to this, like you can't force them to share.

Chelsea (49:02)
You

J.D. (49:30)
You can't force them to I'm sorry. You can't force them to hug. All makes sense to me for various reasons, but the number one is just developmentally, they're not there. Quit it, try to be logical. Quit your sarcasm. None of this works because they're not there. But we do just tell them you're allowed to be mean or you're allowed to be angry. You're just not allowed to be mean. And the more you say things, they get it. And so it's like...

Chelsea (49:31)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

J.D. (49:54)
The conversation around emotions is that for us. We've talked about it and you talked about it and no one's like, like he said something, here we go back to this whole death thing. We don't talk about death a lot.

But we found he knows that conversation with grandpa a lot. And he just randomly shot off like yesterday morning to my wife, who's just casually having coffee, like sitting at the table as he's playing. I don't know why we even like brought it up, but he asked again, like where he is. And, you know, he said heaven and, know, I can feel it because that's that's tough for my wife. You know, grief is is absolutely, you know, a challenge. And she's fine with it most days at all. But here he is asking this question.

and he asked something like, you know, can we see him or, you know, something about like, you know, when can we go to heaven or I don't know, some version of that. And I'm gonna tear up just thinking about it, but she was like, come give me a hug. Here I am. I don't do this. This is like, so it's like those moments where it's like, nope, can't just be like, grandpa's fishing. you'll see him. You can't with anything because the more you do that, that becomes your norm.

Chelsea (51:01)
Yeah.

J.D. (51:06)
and all of sudden they explode, you know? And then what you're telling them is, you what I was talking about, you know, with like skin knees or like that guy, you're that person now, you know? Stop crying, don't do that. you know, do we tell them that too? Sure, but like it's also on the cushion of like, listen.

Chelsea (51:08)
Yep.

J.D. (51:26)
you know, just stop crying for a second. you know, just use your words, you know, that's where we're gearing it towards. It's not a, please stop crying, this is getting on my nerves. It's a stop crying because you know these things and we use that comparison too. It's a meeting him at his level and her at hers. Does she know those words? No, so.

Sometimes that's where he's at. She's at dude and but you know those words and but simultaneously so I mean I that sounds simple, but it's not it's communication. It's just being very comfortable

saying exactly what you need to. You just may not be able to say it that the bug is dead. You know, you can't, you have to kind of watch and what that means. I'll give you one last example as far as like what it like, you know, his reactions and he's my example for everything because he's four. But he has been like months now. He was coming home.

Chelsea (52:06)
Yeah.

J.D. (52:21)
from school and kids are gonna learn anything and everything from school and that's fine. You have to be okay with that. Your job is now to navigate what that means really, because they're just gonna test it. But he was coming home calling people bad guys. And we're like, well, no one says that here. What are you talking about?

Slowly, but surely you realize he's saying that partly when he's tired, but not always every once in a while It would be less like something silly, know, it'd be like, you know You're asking to get changed or you know, it's brush your teeth or come to the table or something like that And he would get mad and tell you like, you know, you're a bad guy and you're just sitting there going. I was gonna I'm just offering to clean up your toys man. Like what happened here? But what was happening was that you

embarrassed him or you threw off his you know his what his mind was wanting to do right you you you frustrated him and he doesn't know those words but I could have easily been like you know no we don't say that like you know the back sit down you know or get changed or clean up all those other reactions and certainly in the beginning was like well I'm not like do you know what that you know certainly because it caught you off guard but like again what I was saying you know what my superpower like I can step back and realize

That's why it's not just tired. It's he doesn't have the words for it. No kidding. Right. And so it's like if I'm not giving him the moment to a feel that and then be like let him process that and give him a new tool that's like no you don't think I'm a bad guy. Did I hurt your feelings. Yeah.

Ta -da, you know? And then, not that it doesn't go immediately, but now he has that, now he has that tool, he has that skill. It's like, I don't have to call you a bad guy, you know? I don't have to push you, I don't have to, I now know that I can tell you, you're in my space, can you work somewhere else? I can, you know, so it's like, if you're not saying it, what do you, like, you can't expect them to change, you know? So, there you go.

Chelsea (54:13)
Yeah. Well, it's cool. And it's

it's ironic because it reminds me of another conversation I was having with another dad around. Well, no. And about having these conversations about giving them the language. And he was explaining that his two year old will now say that hurt my heart. Yeah, because at first, again, he didn't have the language and and I

J.D. (54:26)
Yeah.

There you go.

No.

Chelsea (54:42)
This father was saying, like, I don't think we ever explicitly told him to say, this hurts my heart, but he picked it up and was able then to instead of being like, I hate you, or like, you're mean or you're bad. Now it's like, you hurt my heart. And I thought that was just the most adorable thing in the world. Yeah.

J.D. (54:44)
Excuse me.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

They don't know, they don't know. They know one version, you know, until you help

them figure out the heck that, they're just like us, you know, as grownups. The only difference is we have a catalog of like, you know, examples as to what that means. And that's the biggest thing I always compare, like being in middle school, that's where it works for me, is my understanding that...

Chelsea (55:09)
Yeah!

J.D. (55:23)
A toddler is the same thing as a teenager. Really the only difference here is they know a little bit more of what's going on, how to explain that. But then at the same time they also don't. They have just a mess. And so from a teenager to a 20 year old, well 25, that's when your brain starts to seal off, to that version is the same thing.

they're the exact same, and now the new thing is that they have an even more of an understanding. So it's like, the more you figure that out, the more you just kind of embrace that.

Chelsea (55:47)
Mm -hmm.

J.D. (55:56)
It drops you down a level and it's not like you have to erase all the things that you know. It's like, to me, it's like refining it. It's like, you know, it's like not calling him out. My son does the same thing. Like, and he doesn't do that anymore. But when he was learning like how his body moves there, like food out, sometimes he'd tell you like, you know, he's sad and you're like, what are you sad for? He's like, I'm sad because I think I need to poop. And it's like.

Chelsea (56:21)
Yeah.

J.D. (56:22)
I think you just need to poop. Your tummy probably doesn't feel great, but it was like he was trying to connect the dot and like, can I laugh at that? Absolutely. But I'm going to explain that. Like it's probably not sad. Do you just need to tell me you need to go to the bathroom? know, so it's like that. mean, you're laughing because there's some version of it in everybody, but it's that moment right there. If you're looking at it like this is just laughable and like, let me make a TikTok reel about it. Like.

Chelsea (56:42)
There is absolutely.

J.D. (56:49)
No, like you missed the moment that they're trying to connect a dot of an emotion to the real world. And it's like, I don't think you're, sad would not be that you need to go, you just need to go to the bathroom, right? You might be sad because of whatever, however you want to explain it, you know? So it's like, it's there. Your job is to kind of like make it make sense for them in that moment of life. And that's your job forever, you know, is to...

Chelsea (56:49)
No.

Yeah!

J.D. (57:16)
Navigate it eventually as they grow up you're doing it the same time But for now, it's it's figuring out what you know and almost like unlearning it at the same time You know to how to explain it. That's a whole example of like You know teaching somebody how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, you know If you just said put the peanut butter on the bread You're literally just gonna put the jar on the bread, right? You have to kind of like walk it back for a second and realize that like you know too much They don't help them out

Chelsea (57:20)
Yeah.

Yes!

Yep. Yep.

Yep.

J.D. (57:45)
You know?

Chelsea (57:46)
Your example literally just made me think we had to reschedule this because my family was sick. My two -year -old didn't, doesn't have the language to explain sick. She doesn't have the language to explain what is going on with her. So we, she told us there was spaghetti in her nose and we were very, very confused.

J.D. (57:49)
Excuse me.

No.

Ha ha.

Chelsea (58:11)
And

we're like, there's no, we even got a flashlight out JD. Like we're like, honey, there's no spaghetti in your nose. What she was trying to tell us was that she was really, really congested. Yeah. And so we're like, you have a stuffy nose and it hurts. So like the I'm sad I have to poop. I have spaghetti in my nose.

J.D. (58:17)
Are you sure? Maybe? I don't remember us having spaghetti. What happened here?

Yeah!

There we go.

Think about, I mean, think

about all those different things that you experience. I sick is a good example too, because it's like, you can't see a lot of that stuff. You have no idea. And every time I get sick after them, whatever version that it is, I'm like, this is, I hate sore throats. Man, hold on a second. He probably did, or she probably did. I had no idea. This is awful. What are they experiencing with it? So it's like, magnify that to the rest of the world, right? The rest of things.

Chelsea (58:42)
No!

I do too.

J.D. (59:03)
experience like you just dropping them off at school that seems fine they're at a safe place you just took them away from the two people or you know in my situation the two people that they love the most right now right and yeah they might like their teacher yeah they might love their friends but think about what that I mean like things like that like I don't know how that doesn't like blow people's minds sometimes I'm like that's

Chelsea (59:17)
Mm

J.D. (59:26)
I mean, I enjoyed going to school, but if I think about it, really, there were moments where I was like, I just got ripped away from my world. This is scary. How did you do that all day? This is amazing. All the things that they experience, from awful to good, it's like, wow. I don't even want to think about what that looks like for the first time. Or I haven't in a while, but interesting. OK, so I'm going be a little more compassionate when you're sick, because you might have a sore throat, and I hate those.

Chelsea (59:33)
Yeah.

J.D. (59:53)
you know, like getting to a playground and they're just frozen and looking and you're like, come on, we came here to play. This is a big thing. There's a bunch of kids climbing on all sorts of crap and like, you know, laughing and having a great time, but like they don't need to go running. This is wild to them right now. You know, it's like look through their lens. Truly. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:00:10)
Yeah, like, where do you start? Where do I start? Yes, yes.

I think the common theme throughout this conversation and throughout a lot of what you do through the different podcasts that you do and social media and whatever is, I say whatever a lot, but it's not whatever. Just like you say, like, I don't care. It's not whatever. But like,

J.D. (1:00:19)
Yeah.

I get called out on this. The only reason I'm paying attention to that because I got called out a couple weeks that was like, dad, you shouldn't say that. And I'm like, what did I just, I mean, I looked at my wife and I'm like, hmm. There's another moment. Like, how do I explain this? It's like, mm. And she kind of stepped in. She was like, daddy doesn't mean that he doesn't care. It just means that I was like, you know, doesn't, so I have to watch. But it's like.

Chelsea (1:00:40)
It's...

Yes.

J.D. (1:00:58)
That's a good example of moments that you have to... I've been probably saying it for as long as I can speak, so we'll go with 40 years of my life. Some version of that has probably popped out. So am I gonna change that overnight? No. Is it something that I probably should?

Chelsea (1:00:58)
It's

Yeah.

J.D. (1:01:15)
At this moment, yes, because he knows what care means and I'm telling him I don't care. But you you have to weigh those out, right? I mean, I've certainly seen dads and moms be like, well, I'm not changing that. I'm like, no, you can't. Maybe when you're 70, you don't get a chance. You don't have to, but right now, you're probably getting mad. And I probably did. And I don't even remember it. I probably did get frustrated because he said some version of that. So he's...

Chelsea (1:01:30)
Well, that's what I was gonna say.

Yeah, he's pe -

J.D. (1:01:43)
happily calling me

out and I'm smiling because I'm like, yeah, great. I get to learn stuff and I'm 43, like awesome. Thanks for doing that.

Chelsea (1:01:52)
Well, that's what I mean. I

was gonna say that the common thread through all of this is that you are open to change and you are open to the fact that all of this is an evolution. And it's... Yes. Yes.

J.D. (1:02:05)
Yeah, seeing the world through other people's lens. That's truly what I believe in, you know? And sometimes

that leads you down a road of like, yep, I'm not interacting with you again and I don't like this story. But more times than not, it's just like, if nothing else, like even if I do arrive at that, you know, that destination that it's like, yep, you're not the kind of person I want to stick around, I at least understand now where you like, you know, are coming from, you know? And that's what we have to do.

Chelsea (1:02:15)
Yes!

J.D. (1:02:34)
No matter if you're talking about a little human or somebody twice your age, it's like we all, I don't want to sound like Deepak Chopra or something like that now, but it's like we all are. We're all connected in some way, or form. Even this right here, right? You and I are talking to each other and somebody else is listening to that. We'll at least give it the bare minimum that one other person is listening, but there's three people connected in three different places of the world.

Chelsea (1:02:58)
Yeah.

J.D. (1:03:02)
you know, listening to the same conversation and then... So it's like, don't have... I mean, you can believe in God or Buddha or the Dalai Lama or whatever it is. That's still a common theme that there's this connectedness and you have that impact on somebody, you know? I give you the... For those that are listening that don't have a kid example, I'll give you my adult version of all this. Of how I make this make sense for just the natural world.

is my probably annoying reaction to my wife. But I, and I know this works for the kid version too, but I love to thank the person at the cash out, like the checkout cash, you know, whatever, cashier or whatever, or the barista or whatever that is. If I can't see their name tag, it drives me nuts because I can't thank Melissa or can't say have a great day, Doug.

Chelsea (1:03:52)
Mmm.

J.D. (1:03:55)
Because the person that has been ringing you up that whole time and their demeanor is just like, just freaking cucumbers and just scanning it and putting it in. You can see that they're having a bad day. The minute you say, know, they, here's your receipt. You say blah, blah, like have a good day. You too, thanks Doug. You watch their face and it's like you, I'm not gonna exaggerate, but you made their day potentially because you recognize that they were a human being on the planet.

And I know this works because my son now will ask me when I go through the Chick -fil -A for a lemonade of the week, what was that person's name? And I'm frustrated with it because I'm like, I don't know, Daniel. Their name tag was covered. I don't know. But they were super nice, weren't they? I at least recognize that they were. So I'm at least friendly still. it's like, if you don't believe that you have an impact, try it. Try at least thanking the next person with a name tag around you. And you watch them.

Chelsea (1:04:45)
Yeah.

J.D. (1:04:51)
change everything because it's not the name, it's the fact that you recognize their existence in your world. You weren't just a annoying person, you know, spending $500 on groceries and they had to bag that by themselves, you know? It's like you were like, hey, you're here today. So there's, if you want a trick of how this all works in your, that'll change everything because it makes you think about your impact.

Chelsea (1:05:06)
Yeah.

J.D. (1:05:19)
and just watching somebody else's life and what that means. Whether you have a little human being or an annoying dog that takes up all your bed in the background here, you start realizing what you're doing and what you mean and how important that might be to someone that just passes you by.

Chelsea (1:05:37)
And you know what? Here's another superpower of yours. Superpower is the keyword for this episode. Beautiful superpowers! Well, so typically when I do an episode, wait, I have two questions that I know I will end on one of them and I save it until the end and you just answered the question that I wanted to ask you so beautifully.

J.D. (1:05:40)
Hmm

Beautiful superpowers? Are they beautiful superpowers?

Hahaha

Chelsea (1:06:07)
Beautiful.

I'll tell you what the question was in case, in case, just in, well, no, just in case, because I want to give you an opportunity, but like, I'm also to summarize what you said is like you're you're making people feel seen.

J.D. (1:06:12)
just to make sure I didn't cover it, right?

Yeah.

Chelsea (1:06:24)
And

you're doing that, you personally are doing that through saying someone's name. You're doing that through your podcasts and letting people share their stories. You're doing that with your kids by validating their feelings. You're just, you are making people feel seen. The question I was going to end on is, like, what do you hope other people take away from your journey?

J.D. (1:06:42)
Here we go.

Chelsea (1:06:51)
and maybe there's a different answer.

J.D. (1:06:53)
Maybe there's a different answer. I mean, no, really. mean, it's if I really had to sum up like what happens in my day to day life nine times out of 10, whether it's something that brought me joy and brought me frustration, it was just because I saw it or didn't see it. Right. So it's like and I mean, it sounds wishy washy. It sounds like I said, I sound like some like Buddhist monk and I, you know, maybe some version of me in a different life was. But.

Chelsea (1:06:54)
I don't know.

Yeah

J.D. (1:07:21)
Like I can track that and I can track storytellings like so far back I mean my parents joke and it's my joke now too because They used to tell me like they couldn't wait to hear me talk and then I did and then they wish that I didn't because I just kept talking Obviously, but my kids do it and like so what it makes me do is like I'm seeing them and it's like, yep That's what my parents were saying back then. My dad is that annoying person

Chelsea (1:07:35)
you

J.D. (1:07:46)
And I always thought it was annoying when I was younger, probably like middle school and then it didn't matter because I wasn't like, you know, always going out to eat with him in high school and college. But he would somebody would have like a Yankees fan. He would like somebody would have like a ball cap of a team that he likes and just to test them. He would ask them if they could name five players in the team and you're sitting there going, God, God, like, like that's just your rent, your cashier. Like, stop it. But I know what he's doing. Like he's having a conversation. And so

I don't look for people, like I don't look for anything extra, and not the really that he was, but I don't look for anything extra in the sense of like, that's a cool tattoo, I have tattoos. And I've done that, but that was a lot of work to get to that kind it took a lot of, was like recently with an anniversary dinner, the woman had a tattoo that's on the back of my, it's way back there, on the back of my shirt, underneath, but she had it on her finger, and I spent the whole dinner back and forth, like trying to figure out if we had the same tattoo.

Chelsea (1:08:25)
Yeah.

J.D. (1:08:43)
and she was friendly to us on the way out. And I'm like, yep, gonna ask. But most of the time, that's not the case. Like, I'm just simply just gonna say your name. So I'm not seeking out anything. It's just a natural connecting thing. I don't shy away if somebody talks to me. You know, maybe in the back of my head, I'm like, can you please stop talking to me right now? Because I just wanna get my coffee and go home. But that's not who I am here in front of them.

Maybe if you really listen to me, I'm shorter. Or if you knew me, you'd be like, he's super annoyed right now. Like he just wants to go home. But you're not gonna feel that from me. Everybody's allowed to have that extra feeling, because you probably just wanna go home. But you have to understand that you might be, and that's what I love, that you might be somebody else's best day ever right there. I mean, there's a quote, like you've heard, but it's not necessarily just the relationship you're in.

It's the person that like it took all the courage in the world to turn around and ask you what your tattoos mean. And I'm like, I don't want to talk to you because I just, you're wearing Pokemon hat and you look like you're 50. I don't know what's going on with your situation here. I just, yes, I'm next. You know, like you can be like that, but you, mean, I don't know. I mean, maybe this extreme thinking, but like to me it's like, what if I just was like,

I'm not talking to you right now, man. Like, I'm busy, you know? And that person's gonna go home and they'll maybe be upset the rest of the day, I don't know, or maybe just for that moment they're like, I really wanted to ask that guy that question and he was a jerk and I don't wanna ask anybody that question ever again. I don't wanna be responsible for that. And then so I don't wanna be responsible for my kid when he's screaming at me for the third time, like, dad, can you come look at this? No, I'm washing a dish right now. I'm washing a dish.

right now, like stop it, put the dish down, you know, he just wants to see it, show you the monkey that's on the screen for five seconds, you know? It's that, that's how it reverberates for me, is just recognizing that somebody just wants you to have their moment and that might be the dude that you never will see again, or it could be your mom, you know? You never know, and I just, I mean, I haven't always been that version, but that's definitely my enlightenment that's coming, is like that.

and maybe I was a jerk, you know, when I was like 20 or 30 some version that it was like I didn't want to talk but I mean there was some part of it was still Mr. Nice Guy. I mean I can think of thousand one like examples, you know, if you ever had the time of moments where I like baffled somebody because I was this guy tattooed and I held the door for you and it was like you know so it's it's taken a long time to get this so don't please don't try and do this don't get hurt this is not for no it doesn't happen overnight.

But like truly, just thank Doug next time you're at the cashier and watch. And it'll just springboard into like a whole, it's like that whole being grateful for things. It's weird to be grateful for small things at the end of the day. Do it for a week straight and you'll never go back. It's the same thing. You'll constantly be that annoying person that's thanking and everybody's just trying to go home. But you'll feel so good that you connected with humans and we're f

world's full of them right so yeah thank Doug really

Chelsea (1:12:06)
Yeah, yeah. Talk about a sound bite. That's going to be the hashtag, thank Doug. Hashtag, thank Doug. Yeah.

So I just, I am so grateful, talking about being grateful, I'm grateful to you for being flexible with me. This has taken us a while to get to this point.

J.D. (1:12:23)
Absolutely.

Chelsea (1:12:25)
to have you on my show. I was on one of your shows, but I appreciate your understanding. I appreciate everything that you're doing. I love the message and the energy that you're putting out into the world. This will all be linked in the show notes, but where can my listeners find you if they want to learn more?

J.D. (1:12:28)
Yes.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Mm -hmm And

it's fragilemoments .org slash bio. And everything even is there, but it's in a nice trimmed down form that's like maybe five buttons, I think is where I'm at. but it leads you to the website of my, my mental health community, which bubbles into everything else, is where you can find me.

Chelsea (1:12:56)
You

That's awesome. Thank you JD and I will be following your journey for sure.

J.D. (1:13:07)
Thank you.

Thank you, thank you.

Chelsea (1:13:13)
JD, thank you for taking the time to share your story with me. Being on your podcast was such an honor and having you on Quiet Connection just deepened my appreciation for what you're doing as a mental health advocate and an all around kind human. Listeners, be sure to check the show notes to learn more about JD's work. You can keep up with us on Quiet Connection by following us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at Quiet Connection podcast.

You can help our community grow by leaving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify and consider sharing our episodes on social media. To share your personal journey, you can contact us through our website at quietconnectionpodcast .com or by email at quietconnectionppmh at gmail .com. Join us next time when another story is told and you realize you are not alone. I see you.