McKenzie M - Postpartum Chaos

This week I'm connecting with Mackenzie to unpack the emotional whirlwind of her transition into motherhood. Mackenzie opens up about who she was before becoming a mom, the unexpected challenges of labor, and the traumatic onset of postpartum preeclampsia that changed everything. 

From emergency medical intervention to navigating the early days with anxiety and panic attacks, her story is a testament to the resilience so many mothers are forced to find. 

Together, we explore the realities of perinatal mood disorders, the critical role of therapy and medication, and the healing that begins when we speak our truth. This is a conversation about survival, identity, and reclaiming your sense of self—one step at a time.

Takeaways

• Mackenzie emphasizes the importance of sharing postpartum experiences to help others feel less alone.
• She reflects on the identity shift that occurs after becoming a mother, questioning who she was before.
• Mackenzie discusses the stigma around labeling experiences as trauma, feeling unworthy of the term.
• The conversation highlights the need for better communication and informed consent in medical settings during childbirth.
• Mackenzie shares her love for being pregnant but acknowledges the difficulties of postpartum life.
• She stresses the importance of having open conversations about motherhood and the different experiences women face.
• Mackenzie encourages women to believe that their feelings and experiences are valid and normal.
• The episode discusses the emotional impact of birth trauma and the need for support and understanding.
• Mackenzie shares her journey of navigating difficult conversations with her husband about family planning.
• The conversation underscores the importance of mental health awareness in the context of motherhood.  Postpartum preeclampsia can lead to severe anxiety and panic attacks.
• The experience of high blood pressure can be both physical and psychological.
• Therapy and medication are crucial for managing postpartum anxiety.
• The first two weeks postpartum can be overwhelming and chaotic.
• Sleep struggles are common for new mothers, especially with anxiety.
• Self-awareness and emotional maturity can grow significantly after childbirth.
• It's important to recognize and address perinatal mood disorders early.
• Support from partners can be grounding during panic attacks.
• Researching mental health conditions can be helpful, but avoid over-researching.
• Sharing experiences can help oth

This episode discusses topics that may be triggering for some individuals. Please check the show notes for more information and be mindful of your own mental health and comfort levels.

Real Moms, Real Talk, Real Impact. 

Odd Moms On Call is a podcast for moms navigating the chaos of current events. Join our diverse panel of moms from across the U.S. and Canada, breaking down how politics, policies, and culture impact our families—and how we talk to our kids about them. Honest, unfiltered, and insightful, we're making sense of the world, one conversation at a time. 

Check it out on BuzzSprout!

Transcript

Chelsea (00:00)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. This week, I'm speaking with Mackenzie, a fellow Vermonter. She shares her experiences with uncomfortable medical interventions during labor, her overwhelming anxiety, and the unexpected complications after her son's birth. She discusses the impact of her experiences on her relationship with herself.

and emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and emotional growth. Here's Mackenzie.

Chelsea (00:34)
Hello today, I'm here with Mackenzie. Mackenzie, how are you? I'm pretty good. Mackenzie is a fellow Vermonter. I'm always excited when I get to connect with another like person from my home base, so to speak.

McKenzie (00:38)
I'm good, how are you?

Yes, and even more so, you were just telling me that about your husband who lives in the neighborhood or lived in the neighborhood that I currently live in.

Chelsea (00:53)
Yes!

Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. And the little connections that we have. when I started doing this, almost everyone was exclusively from New England. And now that we're so deep into it, I'm talking to people all over the world. So it's really, really cool to get to talk to someone that I could actually bump into on like Church Street or something like if I was social and got out of my house ever. But

McKenzie (01:15)
Yeah.

Me too. So we may not

ever see each other, but you know Yeah, exactly

Chelsea (01:23)
we could there's potential. Mackenzie,

I always like to start my episodes asking my guests if they could sort of introduce themselves. So if you could introduce yourself, and also let me know who you were before you became a mom.

McKenzie (01:41)
Yeah, sure. Sorry in advance if I cry also. So here we go. So yeah, I'm Mackenzie. I am 30 years old, currently living in South Burlington,

Chelsea (01:44)
my god, that's okay! Don't worry about it!

McKenzie (01:57)
I have a 13 month old son now. We have a five year old dog happily married to my husband who I've been with since college and we met at like a super dive bar in our college town and we joke about it because now the bar has since closed down. So we were like like a fairy tale love story. But like I went to Castleton. Yes. So. So if you know. If you know Fishtail.

Chelsea (02:12)
Ugh.

Where did you go to college? Okay, okay, all right. My brother went to Castleton. He's a little bit younger than you.

McKenzie (02:25)
That was yeah. So

Chelsea (02:25)
I've heard of it, yeah.

McKenzie (02:26)
now it's like the Lake Balmazeen Inn and Lodge and they have like we almost got married there. Like they have beautiful like wedding venue now. But that's where we met back in the day when it was like one dollar PBRs, one dollar like green tea shots on a Thursday night.

Chelsea (02:33)
wow.

You

McKenzie (02:41)
Outside of that, things that I like to do, I'm also a behavior analyst. So I work with kids who have autism in the clinic setting, also in school settings. And I...

love being outdoors. I love hiking, swimming. We love walking our dog. And it's beautiful watching, you know, our son get to know her and her getting used to him. So that's been really fun. And who I was, honestly, I'm like, it's only been a year and I'm like, who was I before I had a kid? It's crazy to think about, but I'm also like, what happened this past year? I don't even know.

Definitely a big friend person. I have a lot of very close friends who are kind of all over now. Friends in South Carolina, Florida. I have a friend who lives in Alaska right now, which is pretty cool. Some of my, you know, best friends like grew up together like their parents were at my parents wedding type of deal.

Chelsea (03:31)
Yeah.

McKenzie (03:38)
I love traveling. I've been kind of all over all throughout Europe, traveling through the United States. Next on our list is trying to go to Alaska to see our friends out there. And I feel like as far as who I am and who I was is pretty consistent. Obviously still learning who that is a little bit postpartum. And I say postpartum, it's like been a year. I'm like clinically postpartum is what? 12 months hormonally. It's two years, right?

Chelsea (04:02)
It's two years. It's two years. Yeah,

a lot of people don't know that. It's up to two years, yeah.

McKenzie (04:06)
Yeah. So

that's great because I'm like, do we ever get back to normal? Is there a new normal? Do we have to learn the new normal? All of these things. Yes. Which I hate. I also hate that. Like I remember them like during COVID. People are like, this is the new normal. And I'm like, how about this? This is just life. But at what point, like, do we ever go back or it's just always But anyway, as far as who I am, you know, I think I would describe myself as pretty outgoing.

Chelsea (04:11)
It's a new normal. Yeah.

During COVID, yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (04:33)
pretty outspoken, pretty authentic. Those are kind of my main core values. So I hope that that comes across today in talking about my experience because I think of myself as a very strong person.

you know, not easily swayed and really postpartum like took me out of the game. So I want other women who feel that way to know that it's normal. And I, you know, it sounds very like conceited, but I'm like somebody who is as strong as I am, can go through some of the hardest things because you just don't know how it's going to affect you. So that's really, really why I'm here today. That's kind of who I am. I want women to feel okay.

I know that like everything that's happening is normal. And I had people telling me that and like I didn't believe it. I still don't know if I believe it, but like I want, I want other women to believe it.

Chelsea (05:16)
Yeah.

I don't know if this will resonate with you at all, but we've done sort of like a, or I've done a language shift through meeting so many people through this. And it actually really helped me reframe it a little bit. I used to say the same thing. Like, this is so normal. This is so normal. It's not normal, but it's really, really common. like, again, like that may not resonate with you at all, but it helped me look at it and be like,

know what I went through was not normal and it wasn't okay and nobody should have to go through it but I'm not alone it's super common.

McKenzie (05:59)
Right, yeah, and that is a great way to think about it.

Chelsea (06:02)
Yeah, so I don't know. just kind of like offer that as something that like as soon as had a guest say it to me and I was like, my God, yeah, right. so if that take that however you want to, but, but yeah, I'm really thankful that you're here and that you are willing to share your story, especially since you're like, you're only just over a year.

McKenzie (06:11)
You're like, get it. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Chelsea (06:31)
after

having your baby and it's hard, it's fresh. That's still fresh.

McKenzie (06:35)
Yeah,

it is. Right. know. I'm like, it feels weird being like this is trauma, because I feel like I'm trying to like reframe like this happened to me versus this is what happened. like, feeling like I

Like word trauma feels really super heavy. But I think, and that's what I think, you know, I talk about this in therapy a lot. That's kind of what I'm dealing with is the results of some birth trauma. But it feels like saying that feels like I'm doing a disservice to people who have had, you know, quote, worse trauma, which has like also been really hard because it's like I, and like women who I know.

Chelsea (06:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

McKenzie (07:15)
around the same time having birth or giving birth and having like way more serious things to deal with. You know, so and I guess we'll get into kind of all of that stuff. But yeah, so it's just like it is just a lot of unpacking, lots of therapy. Like I still see my therapist like biweekly. We tried to go a month and it was just too much. So we're like we're back on it. But yeah.

Chelsea (07:25)
yeah.

Yeah.

I can already tell why like you and Amanda are like, you guys have a very similar energy. And, and Amanda and I worked really, really well together, but like, I am very, like you described yourself as a hard ass softie and I am a softie. And like, so I already want to like,

McKenzie (07:41)
Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (07:58)
hug you and like wrap you up and I'm like she probably wouldn't receive that very well. Yeah, I mean I don't like physical touch either except that I'm a hugger which is really weird but like my virtual hug to you is like I hear so much of what you're saying and it's the same thing that I said to myself like I'm not worthy of the term trauma or like because everybody experiences trauma differently like

McKenzie (07:59)
No. Yeah. Physical touch is like my last love language.

Yep.

Right.

Chelsea (08:27)
So

McKenzie (08:27)
Right.

Chelsea (08:28)
I understand like not wanting to give it power by like naming it, I guess, but also like your story matters and we're going to get into it and that's why you're here. So.

McKenzie (08:32)
Yeah.

Right. I,

it's funny that you say that. I remember like texting, like all, have three girlfriends who I'm really close with and all four of us had kids like within a year of each other. And I like specifically remember like texting all of them being like, do you think you have birth trauma? And like all of them being like, no. And I'm like, are you sure? Like the things that you're describing to me, like were horrific. And like the fact that like you survived that,

Chelsea (08:59)
Yeah.

McKenzie (09:06)
But the way that it's internalized is just so different for everybody. So that's why it feels like I had, you know, yeah. It's just, I can't even sometimes put it into words. You know?

Chelsea (09:16)
No, it's

messy and I just wanna like acknowledge that a lot of what is done in the birth realm in our country would be considered traumatic anywhere else.

there's a lot of like not having informed consent. There's a lot of not having control over your body there and, it's not okay. So, but we're, we're made to think it's normal. Like that's how you birth. That's how you give birth and it doesn't have to be, but steering us back to you, so that we don't go too crazy down too many rabbit holes. let's kind of get into that a little bit. Like, so.

McKenzie (09:45)
Great. Yep.

Yeah, yeah.

Chelsea (10:02)
Were kids always on your agenda? Was it something that did you always want to have kids?

McKenzie (10:08)
I think so.

Honestly, I had never really, I mean, I think I like always thought about it. honestly, like I was like, I want three kids. That's like ideal. And then I had a kid and I'm like, I don't know if I want any more. You know, so like, yes, in my life, like in my like vision as like a 15, 16 year old girl, I'm like, I'm to have three kids by the time I'm 30. That's a joke. Congrats to women who do that, but that is just not for me.

Chelsea (10:22)
Yeah.

Hahaha!

Yeah.

McKenzie (10:37)
And then actually like my husband and I kind of like brushed the conversation off. So this is a word of advice to anybody who's getting married, talk about it. Because we were on, you know, we like talked about it.

quote, but we're on very different pages until after we got married that we like were seriously having discussions about it and he was like I don't want any kids and like the way that we ended those conversations was always like let's have one and see how it goes until finally he was like no like I don't want kids. Obviously you see where that got us we have one. Honestly like I think I was I went through like a little phase of

Chelsea (11:07)
I was gonna say when did that shift?

McKenzie (11:13)
All of my friends were starting to get pregnant. And that was like very, very hard for me. And he, I think that he saw that and he was like, this is something that I will do for you and for us. Now he's like vehemently against any, any more. And I'm like a little bit on the fence, just given like my experience and like how hard postpartum has been for me.

Chelsea (11:31)
Yeah.

McKenzie (11:35)
So we'll see. So like it had been a part of my life plan and I'm getting more comfortable with the idea of it not going the way that I wanted it to go.

Chelsea (11:45)
Yeah, yeah. That is super important and I'm glad that you brought that up, like having those conversations. I mean, we all hear that, like talk about these things before you get married. But when you're in your, especially when you said you've been with your husband since your college days, like, right, but those aren't the things that you're thinking about when you're 20 at all. No.

McKenzie (11:55)
Mm-hmm.

Literally since I was 20, so like 10 years. No, nope. Not even when you're 25. Like we got married

when I was 26. Like still I feel like 30 is the new 20. You know, so like having those conversations and also like going to therapy, highly recommend that because I feel like that's helped me figure out how to have these conversations.

Chelsea (12:13)
Yeah.

Yes?

McKenzie (12:25)
with him and he's a social worker so he's like he's well versed in like conversing and like having difficult conversations and that was something that I was not so I felt I always had like like a hard time having those conversations with him because I felt like I was being like I was in a therapy session so I often avoided those but you know yeah you grow up you learn more about yourself that's really important and then you really dive into the conversations.

Chelsea (12:42)
Mmm.

Yeah, for sure. So let's kind of navigate that path. you and your husband decided that you were gonna go for it. You were gonna start trying. that journey, was that part of the journey how you expected it to go at all?

McKenzie (12:55)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

It happened a lot faster than I thought, which I also hate saying because I know many women who have struggled with fertility. But like we, had come off birth control in February and then in December or in October rather, we were like, let's start being less careful. And then by December I was pregnant. So it was like two or three cycles of kind of like unplanned planned pregnancy.

Chelsea (13:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right,

like not trying, but not not trying. And how, and was pregnancy sort of like, I hit this, that's such a loaded question because every pregnancy is so different and some people really love it and some people really hate it and some people don't, aren't, I don't know, like what was pregnancy, what was that experience like for you?

McKenzie (13:40)
Right. Yep, exactly.

Yeah. Yep.

The first trimester was wild, as it is for many women. I was like in bed at like 5 p.m. most nights. I lived on Welch's fruit snacks and Eggo waffles. Like that's all I could eat for the first trimester.

Chelsea (14:04)
Yeah.

I mean, that doesn't

sound to I mean, that sounds like every five year old's dream.

McKenzie (14:16)
Yes, right. And so my doctor at that point was like, as long as you're taking like a prenatal vitamin, like it's probably fine. I was very thankful. I never had like morning sickness, never threw up, which was really great. I was just very just tired. And then I and then after that, I loved being pregnant. Like I love and I love seeing pregnant women. I think it's just so beautiful and so fascinating. So like it was really awesome to like be the pregnant person. And so.

I breathed through pregnancy. saw a chiropractor throughout my pregnancy, which I think helped with my birth I slept well. I really wasn't hormonal at all. I think if anything, I was a little bit more like flat affect, which should have been a warning sign to me, but it wasn't. Yeah, hindsight, exactly.

Chelsea (15:03)
hindsight. Yeah.

McKenzie (15:06)
And like, yeah, I loved it. My body like handled it well. like, loved it and I was going through it. had a friend who was two weeks ahead of me and she, she had a very hard time being pregnant. She was pregnant with a girl and we didn't know what we were having. And you know what you read is that pregnancies with boys tend to be easier.

So was like, it's definitely a boy. I kind of just knew in my gut. So that was, so like we were in it together and I always felt bad like talking about it because I was like, I love being pregnant. Like if I would do it again a million times, if it wasn't for postpartum, know, yeah.

Chelsea (15:40)
Yeah, yeah, I hear that a lot actually. Yeah,

and because we're so unprepared for it. so again, I also want to acknowledge

McKenzie (15:46)
Right.

Chelsea (15:51)
we talk a lot about the shame and the stigma about talking about the postpartum period, but like you're describing this shame and even admitting that you enjoyed being pregnant. It's like, why can't we have these conversations? It's okay. Like I, I hated my second pregnancy. Like I hated every minute of it, but I also like was not gonna like if you and I had been chatting and you'd been like, I love it. I wouldn't be like, well,

McKenzie (16:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (16:18)
F you like you know what I mean like this should be an okay thing to talk about we can talk about our experiences and they can be different and we can still talk about them

McKenzie (16:19)
Right. Yep.

Right, and conversely, I think I get mad at women who talk about how lovely postpartum is. Like it triggers something in me where I'm like, you are not being honest. Maybe you do love it. And I am very, very jealous of that. So that's why, so that's, can see both sides where like it was, I didn't want to talk about it because I was like, I know how hard it is for my other friends who have gone through it.

Chelsea (16:35)
I feel that too.

Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (16:51)
And I like to protect other people. But with this, I'm like, this is how I'm going to protect you is by talking about my journey and telling you how hard it was. So I loved being pregnant, did not love postpartum.

Chelsea (16:59)
Yeah.

I resonate so much with the last part of what you said. And I do have to fight that part of me that is like, you're a liar or like, stop, like it's stop talking about the roses in the sunshine because that's not what it is. But for some people it really is. And I have accepted that for me, it is it is a part of my

McKenzie (17:11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (17:24)
trauma and my postpartum experience that's just like, I don't know if it's jealousy. I don't know if it's jealousy or if it's just like this profound anger that I didn't get that. And knowing that one in five, it's probably a much bigger number than this because it goes unreported. But like, this is not an uncommon experience. But to have

McKenzie (17:35)
Yeah, right.

Chelsea (17:51)
the narrative pushed on us that pregnancy and postpartum is rainbows and sunshine and instant bond and golden hour and snuggles and it's like, it's not always though. So yes, I feel that. I feel that really deeply. But hopefully we can come to a place where all stories can exist. But right now.

McKenzie (18:03)
It's not right. Yes. Yep.

Yes.

Chelsea (18:16)
I want to talk about your story. So let's talk about your birth story, if that's okay with you. How did that evolve?

McKenzie (18:18)
Yes, yes.

Yeah, so I was low risk pregnancy had again. It was a beautiful pregnancy. I loved it at Got to 40 weeks and still nothing got to 41 weeks and still nothing. yeah And then I think I was like 41 and 41 weeks and two or three days So I like to round up and say 42 because that's how it feels

Chelsea (18:52)
Yeah.

McKenzie (18:54)
and I went in for like heartbeat check monitoring, made sure the baby was okay.

So I was at Maitri in South Burlington. Loved them. They're all women. The whole staff is women, which was really amazing. You get to meet with all the providers. Like, as you're pregnant, we had started at a different midwife clinic. Did not like them. Had a really bad experience with them.

Which actually I guess I should backtrack. was during pregnancy, this is why we ended up switching, during the 20 week anatomy scan, son's kidneys were enlarged. So when we met with the woman who was reading the scan, she was essentially like, he has Down syndrome. So we were like, okay. And it felt very weird. And then we, exactly, it was strange.

Chelsea (19:33)
Okay.

McKenzie (19:45)
And they're like, we like waited for like, we opted in for like NIPT testing with an ultrasound. So it was like a different than like kind of like the classical route. It wasn't really explained to us well, but we were like, we get an extra ultrasound. We're going to do this. It's so funny. I forget all about this because of postpartum. So at the 20 week scan, they said that his kidneys were enlarged and we're like, OK, this is.

Chelsea (20:03)
Yeah.

McKenzie (20:09)
like obviously concerning, like now we have a lot of things to wait, yet we're still waiting on our blood test results to like confirm any genetic abnormalities. And like the results just like weren't coming back and they weren't coming back. So we're having conversations with the fetal medicine, maternal fetal medicine doctors. And they're like, essentially like, hey, you only have like six more weeks if you want to terminate the pregnancy, you know, like that kind of stuff. And we're like, okay, like.

Chelsea (20:26)
maternal fetal medicine.

Ugh.

McKenzie (20:38)
This is like one marker of Down syndrome. Like if he has Down syndrome, we're really worried about like the other stuff. Like if he's going to have like a congenital heart disease, which they like didn't pick up on or like something that's like incredibly concerning. And at this point, I'm like 22 weeks pregnant. I'm like, this is I'm over halfway. There's like, we don't we don't want that. That felt really uncomfortable. So we ended up switching care to Matri, who were like essentially like his kidney was a five millimeter.

Chelsea (20:48)
Right.

Yeah.

McKenzie (21:05)
It used to be that the standards now are 10 millimeters it was like one millimeter over like the old standards. So they're like, we're not worried about this at all. We'll do another scan at 32 weeks to like confirm by 32 weeks. was he had his kidneys were like the same size and they were like within normal range. But like just like having that information, the way that things were explained, like you go into pregnancy, your first pregnancy, at least like I didn't know anything. I don't even know what questions to ask.

Chelsea (21:13)
Okay.

Yeah.

McKenzie (21:33)
I forgot about all of that. And then back to the original question, which was the birth story. So I'm at 42 weeks in quotes, really 41 and two days. And we go into the office for like the heartbeat check.

monitor. They checked my amniotic fluid to make sure that there was still enough in there. They did another ultrasound, which was also cool. So like we ended up getting like five ultrasounds, which I feel like is also not normal. Usually it's like three, right? You get like your eight week, kind of eight to 10 week initial scan, your 20 week, and then your, if you go over 40 weeks. And I think they do one at 36.

Chelsea (21:58)
Yeah.

yarn.

Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, because that's when I found out, I think, that she, my second was Breach. So, yeah. Yep.

McKenzie (22:17)
Yes, and I think that's why they do that, right? To check like,

the baby's positioning. So we went in and they were like, do you want to do a membrane sweep? And I was like, I don't know. What do you rec... Yeah, I knew what it was. I had a friend though, who was like, had three of them before she delivered. So I'm like, I don't want to do that. I'm like, what do you recommend? Like you're the professional. She was like, I think you should do it. So we did.

Chelsea (22:30)
Did you know what it was? Okay.

McKenzie (22:44)
It was very painful. Nothing compared to labor though. So like, and she walked me through the whole thing and that was really great. They were, again, Maitri's they're incredible. They, so that happened. Then we went home and my mom was actually here because I'm like, we have a dog. We need somebody to stay with the dog. Like if we go into labor.

Chelsea (22:49)
Ha ha ha!

McKenzie (23:04)
and we ended up going for a walk and I'm getting really bad poop cramps while we're on the walk and so I'm like, I think we need to go back, I'm gonna poop my pants if we don't. So we go back and I poop and I'm like, okay. And then I was like, that's the bloody show, that's the mucus plug coming out, yay, maybe we have some progress. And then kind of like nothing, just kind of like back cramps.

Chelsea (23:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

McKenzie (23:30)
And then I went to bed, so that was like around four, 430 went to bed around nine. And then was having contractions starting. were kind of random, just like localized to my back. Like I wasn't having like full body contractions. So we called the providers and they're like, okay, like call us back when they're, you five minutes apart, one minute. We got to that point like within an hour. Yeah, and it was still just all in my back. So I was like.

Chelsea (23:52)
Wow.

McKenzie (23:56)
I feel like nothing's happening. But we went in through the emergency room. And I remember like going in and just like running to the bathroom because I was like, I don't want to have a contraction in front of all of these people. And so somebody knocked on the door and they're like, we're just checking on you because some women feel like they have to poop and then they have a baby on the toilet. And I was like, no, like, I'm not there. Like, I just can't be in front of other people. And then they're like, OK, we're going to get you up, you know, to labor and delivery.

Chelsea (24:14)
Yeah.

McKenzie (24:23)
Do you want to walk or do you want a wheelchair? And I was like, there's no way I can sit down. know, so. I want to try walking and then we started walking and I'm like, how far is it? She's like, it's around the corner up the thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, OK, let's get the wheelchair. So it honestly couldn't tell Like, I don't remember. Getting into the elevator up this up the elevator, but I remember like coming out of it around the corner.

Chelsea (24:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (24:48)
like in a wheelchair having contractions and then like we get into the room and They who was it all the the UVM provider came in who was not our doctor but they do they do it conjoined a joint effort Take like tag team and really our doctor just comes in for like medication administration and delivery Which I also didn't know

You know, I think that was my bad should have asked, but I didn't know to ask, you know? And I think they had alluded. They probably said like, yes, we do this with UVM, but I don't think I understood what that meant, really. And she kept prompting me and I was like, my birth plan was to not have an epidural. And then I was like, psych, as soon as I got there. So I asked for one and she was like, we need to do a cervix check. You need to get on the bed. And I was like, I literally cannot get on the bed.

Chelsea (25:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

McKenzie (25:41)
Like I was like, I cannot lay down. need to like, I can't. And she's like, you need to. And I was like, okay, like I guess I don't have a choice. This is the professional telling me, this is the doctor. You have to get on the bed. I loved her. Like I thought she was great. And she's like, you're only two centimeters. And I'm like, okay. I was two centimeters when I went and had a membrane sweep. Fuck my life. Here we go. So she's like, I'm going to consult with your provider and I'll get back to you.

Chelsea (26:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

McKenzie (26:09)
So that whole time they're like hooking me up. They're trying to, trying to get me set up with an IV and like they can't find a vein because I'm dehydrated or whatever. So they had to bring in the ultrasound machine to find a vein. They like poked me probably like 10 times. They're like, we're so sorry. And I was like, honestly, it's like a nice like reprieve from the contractions. This whole time, who knows what else is going on. They set me up to like monitor the contractions with the monitor on

on my stomach. And then there was at one point, there was like a super long pause between contractions. And the nurse said something like, this next one's going to be really big. And I'm like, why would you say that? That's horrible. Obviously, like, I'm not managing the pain well. not like, I was like so outside of my head. I was like, I can't even like, I can't even like find my body. You know, like I cannot get grounded, which is something that I wish I was better at.

Chelsea (26:37)
Mm-hmm.

Ugh. Yeah.

McKenzie (27:04)
going into pregnancy. Now I'm like, it's a skill set that I use often. Didn't have it, couldn't access it while I was having contractions. we get set up. The UVM provider comes back in and it's like, so like, why don't you try getting in the shower? And I'm like, okay, yeah, like you're the doctor, like I'm gonna listen to you. Like if you don't think I should have an epidural yet, great.

Chelsea (27:10)
Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (27:27)
And then like, don't even know how much time passes. They finally get the IV in, still having Actually, yeah, I think it was a, we got there at like 11 and got the epidural at one. But like she came back in and was like, okay, yeah, you are in a lot of pain, so we're gonna get you the epidural. So it's like, okay, great. Once I got set up on the IV though, the intensity of the contractions did decrease a lot.

Chelsea (27:44)
Yeah.

McKenzie (27:52)
And I was like, at this point, like they've already ordered it. Like, let's just bring it in and just like do it. I don't have a problem with that. So that went off without a hitch. Love the epidural it worked wonders for me. It was like, in my mind, I'm like, there's no way I can keep doing this and push and then have like, can't, how am I, I'm going to be so exhausted. How am I going to do this? And that's kind of was like the, pushing, what pushed me to just be like, just get it. And then I think around

Chelsea (28:02)
You

Right.

McKenzie (28:19)
two so I had been like an hour on the epidural my contractions stalled so they were like okay before the epidural also backtrack a little bit the anesthesiologist came in and was like trying to talk to me about the epidural and like getting my written you know consent and I literally I just remember like I'm right-handed he just like handed me a pen my eyes are closed and I signed it with my left hand because I was like I just don't even I don't know what you want from me right now like

Chelsea (28:43)
Yeah.

McKenzie (28:47)
I don't, how can I answer a question? Like, can you see what I'm doing? Yes. And so, so my contractions stalled and my provider from Matri came in and was like, your contractions have stalled. We would like to give you Pitocin. Should have done my research. I did not really, I'm like, I've heard about, you know, Pitocin, like this helps bring on contractions. I know that it's like,

Chelsea (28:49)
Yeah. I'm a little busy here.

McKenzie (29:15)
women who are induced get pitocin and it makes it more intense and you know, so I was like, okay, that's fine. So from one to six contractions picked up by six, was 10 centimeters, six AM I was 10 centimeters. So I was like, right. So like labor for literally like seven hours. I'm like, this is beautiful. And then she's like, okay, it's time to push. On the first my water there's meconium in.

Chelsea (29:34)
Yeah.

McKenzie (29:43)
the water, which was also really scary. So they're like, we're going to bring in the NICU team for when he comes out if he's not, you know, not breathing. So like, don't even know if I processed that. Like, I don't like I remember them saying that, but I'm also like, what does that even mean? So then I pushed for 45 minutes and he was born and he was fine and it was great. But like in the delivery room, it was my doctor. It was like right around seven when they do their switch to. So it was my doctor.

Chelsea (29:59)
Yeah.

McKenzie (30:12)
two UVM doctors, two UVM nurses, and four people on the NICU team. So it was like nine people plus me and my husband. So there were 11 people in the room. It was a lot. And then also a med student. So there were, yeah, 10 It was a lot. And I'm like, honestly, more people have seen my vagina this past like 10 months than my entire life combined. Like maybe just in this one 45 minute stretch.

Chelsea (30:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (30:41)
So yeah, and then he came out. I had a second degree tear, so they stitched it up. And like I asked to see my placenta, which was really cool. And they were like, your placenta is very hot. We're going to send it off to the lab for cultures, which was interesting. Yeah, like had a fever. It was like, yeah, that's how it was. Exactly. I was like, OK, great. Sure.

Chelsea (30:58)
Yeah, it had a fever. I've never even heard that.

McKenzie (31:07)
Yeah, and then we did like just, you know, skin to skin contact. He pooped all over me. Yes, I think I had to pee before I left labor and delivery. So like eventually like the epidural wore off, like went to the bathroom, et cetera, et cetera. And then we transitioned to the mother baby unit. And I guess many women who have birthed in the hospital, there was like not a second of peace. They're like, just rest.

Chelsea (31:12)
Of course.

McKenzie (31:32)
You see all like those memes and videos where it's like just rest and then it's like 10 minutes later, the baby's doctor comes in 10 minutes after that, your doctor comes in 10 minutes after that, the nurse comes And that's pretty much how it was. Although I felt great. I like couldn't walk, obviously, like very swollen because he came out fast and furious. And like that was great. So like really the I reflect on it, I'm like, yeah, there are some kind of

Chelsea (31:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (31:56)
Like what did you say? Unnatural, but common. Not normal, but yes. Which is like, like yeah. So like the cervix check, like if I'm telling you no, like that shouldn't be forced, right? I understand why you have to do it, right? You're a doctor, you're trained in medicine. Like this is how you know how to make decisions. And I get it. But I was like, I literally can't get on the bed. Like I don't know.

Chelsea (32:00)
not normal, right. Not normal, but common. Yeah.

Yeah, yup.

was gonna

say you also are not required to do anything on a bed. You don't have to birth on a bed. don't have to... So, yeah, no.

McKenzie (32:26)
Exactly.

Yeah.

So yeah. And I liked the doctor. She was ended up like really cheering me on when I was pushing and it was like very motivating. But yeah, it's just like those little things that I'm like, huh. But like also, and I am like 50 50 because of my experience in the hospital that I'm like, I would never not have my future births in a hospital. And I'm

Chelsea (32:38)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (32:56)
That's just my personal opinion, even if it's like I'm like highly medicalized, births are for me because I know that they're gonna help me the quickest way that I need. So yeah, so that was the birth. And then we get into postpartum.

Chelsea (33:05)
Yeah.

Yeah,

how quickly did things sort of I don't even know how to word this properly. Yeah, how quickly did things turn?

McKenzie (33:23)
traumatic? Yeah.

Yeah, that's I know exactly how quickly because I have like the timestamps on like my phone from taking pictures. So I remember like as he was born, we're still on labor and delivery. said to my husband, like, hey, as far as traumatic births go, I felt like that wasn't bad at all. You know, like labor, I think I labored total for 10 hours, pushed for 45 minutes. Like that felt beautiful.

Chelsea (33:34)
Wow.

Yeah.

McKenzie (33:54)
And then we got to mother and baby unit and it was fine. Honestly, I don't remember much about the first day Like I wasn't sleeping. They're like trying to teach you how to breastfeed Yada, yada, yada. They're like do you have and like I didn't ever feel like I had to pee But like I'm like, I know I have to pee like I just like had no sensation in any part of my vagina So like they're like testing your input and your output. They're like keeping track of all of that stuff And then

Chelsea (34:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (34:21)
My doctor came in and I was like, like when, how soon after like, can I like start walking? They're like, you should already be doing that. So I'm like, okay. So like I walked down to, you know, they had him in like the nursery a little bit. So I would like walk down there, go see him. He also, because my placenta was hot, he was started on antibiotics right away because the cultures came back that they were contaminated.

or something, so he needed to start on antibiotics. And then what ended up happening was that the sample that they had taken, that's what was contaminated. So like it was like a false sample. So they took him off the antibiotics, but like we would have to go down there to see him. And then like I watched them do his circumcision, which was fun. It was, it was like, it was interesting. Like I love like, you know, Dr. Pimple Popper and yeah, so.

Chelsea (34:49)
Okay.

Which was fun.

Okay

McKenzie (35:18)
Kind of like that, right? Like a mini surgery. And then while that was happening, my mom and my sister were, John and I, my husband, were watching him get circumcised. My mom and my sister were in the mother and baby unit and had ordered pizza. And so we had walked back.

Chelsea (35:19)
Yeah.

McKenzie (35:36)
And I ate some pizza. I'll never forget it was Romanto's. It's my favorite pizza, too. It Romanto's, like the pesto pizza, but I get it with mushrooms and broccoli. I was afraid to eat it for a while because I was like, am I going to have a trauma response to this? And then, like right after I finished eating, I remember I had like one of those like mini portable fans and I was like, I'm starting to get hot and like I don't feel good. So I turned the fan on.

Chelsea (35:50)
no.

McKenzie (36:01)
I'm getting like hot thinking about it right now. Turn the fan on and I'm like, huh, this is weird. And then, ooh, my body's having a very strong response right now.

Chelsea (36:03)
Yeah.

Be mindful if this isn't something you can talk about, that's okay.

McKenzie (36:15)
Yeah, no, that's okay. It's good. It like feels good. But like my body is responding the exact same way. And like a nursing student came in and was like, can I get you anything? And I'm like, I'm so hot. I need like five bags of ice. Can you go get me some ice? So she brought in like a lot of ice bags and I was like, like I couldn't cool down. I was just like, and then my legs started shaking and I'm like, what's going on? So the nurse comes in, she takes my blood pressure and she's like, I don't even remember what she said.

Chelsea (36:20)
Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

McKenzie (36:44)
But she rang the emergency bell and like a whole bunch of people came in. Yeah. So and then she's like, she's talking to me about how she was like a surrogate and like trying to calm me down. I'm like holding on to John's hand. Like my body is just hot. My legs are shaking. I have tunnel vision. like focused on. I remember it's like a sign about like smoking weed during pregnancy. I don't know why. That's just like I kept reading that over and over again. Smoking weed during pregnancy and while breastfeeding.

Chelsea (36:46)
God.

McKenzie (37:10)
The nurse continues to take my vitals and they bring in somebody to set in an IV because they had taken it out because everything had been going so well.

And then they were like that. It's when they were like, I don't even know if that point they were like, your blood pressure is really high. But I think they said, we need to transfer you back to labor and delivery because we need to start you on a magnesium drip. And I'm like, okay, great. like it was, honestly, I just remember like blank stare, like couldn't focus on anything. They gave me something, which I think is like procardia. It like, helped lower my blood pressure kind of immediately.

Chelsea (37:33)
no.

McKenzie (37:51)
Like this was kind of like all the whirlwind. And then once we got to labor and delivery, they're like, we're going to start you on a mag drip to reduce your risk of stroke and seizure. Like I had no idea like what my blood pressure was. look, when I looked back on my notes, like my blood pressure was like 178 over 109.

Chelsea (38:11)
my gosh.

McKenzie (38:11)
And then for like for an hour and then like an hour

Chelsea (38:13)
Yeah.

McKenzie (38:13)
later it was like 168 over 110 or something. So like it was sustained. So they're like, obviously we need to like do this. This is postpartum preeclampsia. So like I didn't even know that was a thing. I'm like, you hear about it? Preeclampsia. Right, right.

Chelsea (38:25)
Yep. Yeah.

You do. And even then you don't hear about that enough. But yeah.

McKenzie (38:36)
And now when I talk about this, a lot of women I know have had similar experiences. My friend who was two weeks ahead of me, her blood pressure spiked at 36 weeks, and she was admitted to the hospital, started on a magnesium drip, and induced, ended up in a C-section after four days of labor. So I'm like, my god, how horrible. And then mine came after. And when I think about it, it's like I don't know if it's...

I don't know if at the same time I had an anxiety attack that was just so intense, like I had never had something like that in my life, or it was the feeling of my blood pressure being so high. But those two events kind of...

They obviously happened at the same time. So anytime, I could feel, right? It's kind of like the egg or the chicken. I could feel when my blood pressure would get high, which would, I would have like those same similar symptoms where like I would start to get hot and then my vision would tunnel. And now I'm like, maybe that was just an anxiety attack and the anxiety is making my blood pressure high or like vice versa. And I will say like,

Chelsea (39:45)
Right.

McKenzie (39:48)
The doctors were great. So when you're on a magnesium drip every hour for 24 hours straight, they come in, they check your reflexes, check your vitals, et cetera. So like you don't sleep. So now I'm going on, like obviously didn't sleep the first night, slept for five hours, then I had my in labor. So now I'm going on five hours of sleep across 36 hours or even more than that, 48 hours almost.

Chelsea (40:10)
Yeah.

McKenzie (40:14)
And then having these blood pressure on the magnesium drip makes you feel like you're walking through like honey. Like that's how I felt. And like that was like, and I remember saying to the doctors, which they wrote in the notes, I was like, I need to make sure that my feet are still attached. Like, because I just feel like I'm like floating in molasses. Like that's just how it felt. Yes. And then so.

Chelsea (40:21)
Yes. Yep.

Yeah.

McKenzie (40:39)
That 24 hours went by and they're like, okay, we're going to stop the magnesium drip and bring you back to labor and delivery. Or to the mommy baby unit. So we got back there.

And that was fine. I remember we sent Weston, that's my son, who's upstairs eating right now, we sent him to the nursery so we could sleep. And I remember laying on the little bed with my husband, not even the hospital bed, but that's the only way I could sleep was when he was touching me, grounding me physically.

Chelsea (40:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (41:06)
And then at some point, like I went back to the hospital bed and then a nurse or a doctor came in at like six o'clock the following morning. And like woke me out of my sleep and induced a panic attack. And I was like, need to ring the bell like it's happening again. Yeah, so that was really fun. And then they're like, OK, we can't give you any more blood pressure meds because I was convinced it's my blood pressure, right? Like I just had this event happen.

Chelsea (41:21)
Ugh.

Yeah.

McKenzie (41:33)
and like I don't even know if I'm like explaining it as intensely as it felt. it like I Yeah

Chelsea (41:38)
I I

don't know if you can, but I'm definitely feeling like I feel like I'm there with you right now. Yeah.

McKenzie (41:47)
Yeah, yeah,

and I think when it happened, think, I don't even remember what I was thinking, but when I reflect back, I was like, I don't wanna die. Like that's what it felt like. It felt like I lost all control of my body, which is like a huge, part of my whole anxiety. It's like, I don't like to be out of control. You know, and then.

Chelsea (41:55)
Yes.

Yep. Yep.

McKenzie (42:06)
Like, yeah, I just was like, can't regain control. And I just felt so out of control of everything. And so then I think I just had reoccurring panic attacks. And finally, they're like, we're going to give you hydroxazine instead of, see if this helps. And I think it's a little placebo effect. like, I need something, because every time you give me something, I feel better. And then when I took the hydroxazine, I slept a little bit. But also like,

Chelsea (42:18)
Mm.

Yeah.

McKenzie (42:32)
my heart was beating so loud. It like wasn't beating fast, but it was beating like hard. So it was like big thumps in my chest, which I'm like, is this the meds? Is this the anxiety? Is this postpartum hormones? Like what the fuck is happening? you know, so they, then my doctor comes in and she's like, okay, we're going to send you home with a couple of prescriptions. One is for Zoloft. and I was like, beautiful. Great.

Chelsea (42:38)
Yeah.

McKenzie (42:57)
I that. I'm really happy that you guys helped figure this out.

It is, this is very much anxiety. And like, I honestly did not believe in hormones until I had a baby. And now like afterward you like read about like, pitocin is more likely to cause like postpartum preeclampsia is more likely to, you know, cause like all of these like huge mood shifts, which I didn't know obviously going into it. However, like I wouldn't have changed anything about anything that happened because I'm like, like,

Chelsea (43:10)
Yeah.

McKenzie (43:28)
If I had felt that way at home, that would have been scarier to me. Being in the hospital is like, they could respond immediately, that felt very safe. And so then, yeah, so I was discharged, got some Zoloft, got some extra hydroxyzine, and then we went home, and then just, postpartum just keeps going from there. So.

Chelsea (43:32)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah, did

it, did you ever get any sort of respite or did you, did you just continue to sort of, I hate using the term like decline because it's not that, but did you get deeper into it once you got home?

McKenzie (44:08)
So I think it's like the first two weeks like actually were the worst of my life and like I say that kind of ironically but like I fullheartedly mean that. Yeah I think it got like it definitely peaked.

Chelsea (44:20)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (44:26)
at two weeks and then everything got better. And then after six weeks, like since then, it's been pretty stable, know, quote stable. But like definitely like those first two weeks, like you're not sleeping, you have the newborn who you have to feed. Like you have to go to doctor's appointments like two days postpartum. Like.

Chelsea (44:40)
Mm-hmm. And not for you,

for the baby.

McKenzie (44:43)
Right,

right. I'm on blood pressure meds. I'm starting Zoloft, which is like just fucked me up. You know, like I'm having anxiety attacks all the time. was like, it's just like all of the, everything that could happen just happened at once. And me, like I'm super analytic. Like that's why I'm a behavior analyst. Like I'm trying to figure out like, is it X, Y or Z making me feel A, B or C? You know?

Chelsea (44:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

What's the antecedent

and what's the, yes.

McKenzie (45:10)
Exactly. Yes. Okay. So I'm like,

okay, so I'm like, look, looking at all these different variables. And I'm like, every time I take this med, it does this and da da da da da. But it's like, it's just all of the things like your hormones are a mess. Your milk starts to come in like, Zoloft, the blood pressure meds make you feel like crap. My first med I was on like wasn't working. So they prescribed another one. So I was on two blood pressure meds for like four weeks or five weeks, which was like no fun.

Chelsea (45:21)
Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (45:36)
Meanwhile, I'm continuing to have panic attacks. I also hated being at home. Again, it's very A type. I like to have a structure. So it was really hard for me to be at home alone with a newborn. And luckily, my husband didn't go back to work for three or so weeks. So that helped. But it was just a lot. And so when we had first night we were home,

Chelsea (45:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (46:02)
I sleep. I think it was like the combination of like the anxiety, the hormones, mostly those two things probably. So I'm like, I literally called my OB probably five times a day to be like, hey, for every reason. on these blood pressure meds, which were just like horrible. They were making me feel like dizzy.

Chelsea (46:13)
Hahaha

Yeah.

McKenzie (46:24)
which is like one of the ways that I felt when my blood pressure spiked, which is like an antecedent to my anxiety attacks even still. like I tried to sleep in my bed. I slept with like one leg touching the floor so I could like be feel grounded. And then I like took a hydroxazine, which is supposed to help you sleep, but it just made my heart pound. And I'm like, okay, I can't, I can't do that. So.

Chelsea (46:30)
Yeah.

McKenzie (46:50)
Like I woke up and I brought Weston to the nursery, put him in the crib, and I slept in the rocking chair. I kept the lights on, put Shark Tank on, on my phone. I know, just couldn't sleep. But I think I got, I don't know, 20 minutes on, an hour off, and then he was obviously waking up to feed.

Chelsea (46:59)
Yeah. my God. Yeah. Yeah.

McKenzie (47:10)
And then during the daytime, I'm just exhausted. And my mom's like, you need to sleep. And I'm like, I want to sleep. I really do, but I can't. So that was night one. Then night two, I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to sleep.

But I don't want to take hydroxazine because that makes my heart beat really hard and I don't like the way that feels. So I called the OB and they're like, it's effectively the same as Benadryl. Just take a Benadryl. So I take a Benadryl and I go to bed and then I wake up saying in the guest room where my mom is sleeping and I'm like, mommy, mommy, mommy. It was so strange. Like I felt, yes, completely out of my body. And I was like, I am never taking a Benadryl again in my life.

Chelsea (47:31)
It is. Yep.

Whoa.

Yeah, wow.

McKenzie (47:52)
then again, I slept in the rocking chair in the nursery. I tried to sleep in the rocking chair. John had the baby downstairs. We were kind of like taking turns. I couldn't sleep. So I just went and like sat on the couch while he was like taking care of the baby.

And so that's night two, we're home. Night three, I was like, I can't be in our bedroom. Like I've had too many anxiety attacks, like that whole thing, like sleepwalking and like asking for my mom. Like that was weird. Like, let's, and that, I guess also the second night I like woke up before I took the Benadryl and was like, my whole house feels backwards. I was like, I'm not, like, it was like, am I going crazy? Like I woke up and was like,

Chelsea (48:32)
Yeah.

McKenzie (48:34)
And like, I think it's because John and I had like switched sides of the bed. I'm like, am I crazy? I don't know. So the third night we're like, okay, let's try to sleep in the basement. So we like set up all the stuff in the basement, kind of slept on and off. It was much easier. we ended up like sleeping in the basement for like two weeks because I was like, I can't go back into our bedroom because I'm afraid to have an anxiety attack in the bed. And I'm afraid of like all these other things that are happening when I'm sleeping.

Chelsea (48:56)
Yeah.

McKenzie (49:00)
And I was like terrified to sleep for like weeks. And then finally I was like, I just need to do it. Like I'm not sleeping well in the basement. Let's go back to the bedroom. Meanwhile, I'm still having anxiety attacks like on and off throughout the day. They're much better. But like the night times are just super, super hard. And I like, I remember looking at John and being like, can we bring him back to the hospital? Like I can't do this. And like, I say that like kind of like jokingly, but like I like meant it. I was like.

Chelsea (49:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (49:27)
I was like, how am I supposed to do this? I can't even take care of myself. Eventually, like we got back upstairs to the bedroom and I had to like practice falling asleep. So I would like.

I would like doze off and then I would like pop open my eyes and be like, look, you did it. You slept for 10 seconds. Good job. Okay, let's do it again. And like had to hype myself up like on repeat until like I was able to like sleep. And I just like would do that like on repeat until like I slept. Or if I woke up, I'm like, nice job. Like, like I had to like literally hype myself up. Like you did it. You slept. Yes. Yeah. And then I also remember like I would like wake up like

Chelsea (49:58)
Yeah, you were giving yourself that self-talk. Wow.

McKenzie (50:07)
all the time. So I like would record myself on my phone to be like, is something happening to me? Like, why am I waking up so much? So like, I would like turn the camera on to see if like I could catch a change in my breathing or like an outside noise or something. Cause it was just all the time. Like I couldn't sleep. Like literally. I was like, I don't like, I don't know what's happening. Why can't I sleep?

And that was really the hardest part. after like two weeks, that really settled down. But I would wake up in the middle of the night and if I checked my phone and I felt a little bit dizzy, I would have panic attacks just all the time. There was one night that I literally was shaking like I was in the hospital. Full body, just like trauma response, shaking.

Chelsea (50:44)
Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (50:55)
And like John had to like lay on me so that I could feel grounded, you know. So that was a lot. And then, you know, they say it takes six to eight weeks for like your meds to take So like I started to feel better after that. After like five weeks, I weaned off the blood pressure meds, which also helped me feel better.

Chelsea (50:59)
Yeah.

McKenzie (51:13)
And then by six weeks, like, things were better. Like, I still having panic attacks, but like, I could recognize them as panic attacks and not like my blood pressure spiking. So like it was less fear-based and more just like body responding. And then I ended up like increasing my meds, which was helpful. But like really, like, I think I got the Zoloft really helped me get through that. Zoloft in therapy.

Chelsea (51:22)
Yeah.

McKenzie (51:36)
That's like what saved my life. Yeah.

Chelsea (51:38)
Yeah, well,

so many things sort of jumped out at me about, and you did an absolutely beautiful job of explaining that and explaining the physical feelings as well as the psychological feelings of it.

One of the things that stuck out to me was how early on when we started talking, like you were saying, like, I'm not a physical touch person. I don't like that at all. And how much of an impact the physical touch and presence of your husband was able to sort of take you out of those panic moments. Which just was, it just was very interesting to me. And it speaks to obviously the connection that you have that

McKenzie (52:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (52:22)
that him being like physically touching you physically being on you physically being next to you was able to ground you enough. Also, like having the knowledge that you had of grounding and of bringing yourself back to the present is a skill that not a lot of people have. And so when you're going through these types of experiences, whether it be postpartum or just other mental health challenges like

I'm so thankful that you had that tool in your toolbox, even though it wasn't easy and it sucked. of course my mom brain, which you will understand my head is like it just, my train just jumped the track, but, so not being able to decipher like the chicken and the egg thing.

McKenzie (52:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Chelsea (53:12)
and asking yourself, am I crazy? Like, is this just anxiety? Is another thing that I think a lot of people don't really understand when it comes to trauma and trauma response and mental health. Whether or not, and I can't say because I wasn't there and I wasn't in your body, but mental health can completely affect your physical health as well. And it very well could have been both at the same time.

McKenzie (53:34)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (53:37)
And then, yes, feeling those same feelings is going to evoke a trauma response, which is going to amplify those feelings and make you so like listeners, anybody listening, like you're not crazy. You're not crazy. And even the saying like it's all in your head, whatever's going on in your head can still make you sick.

McKenzie (53:52)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (54:01)
can still make you very sick and it doesn't mean that it's like, I'm just crazy. It's like, no, you deserve care and attention. yeah.

McKenzie (54:09)
Right. Right. that's, yeah. And that,

for me, honestly, like, the therapy, obviously the drugs helped because that I probably should have been on them like before. Like I...

Chelsea (54:22)
was gonna

ask, did you have a prior history of any mental health challenges?

McKenzie (54:27)
So

I had like in college for like a minute was on Celexa and like I didn't like the way it made my head feel like I just felt like kind of fuzzy so I just like came off of it. Definitely just had like I had like persistent anxiety just like general anxiety. I had never really had panic attacks but I had a couple during pregnancy which I like recognized like there was one time I was on a plane.

Chelsea (54:32)
Okay.

McKenzie (54:54)
and felt like I needed to get off the plane and then had an anxiety attack and I'm like, huh, that's weird. And glad that I said something during pregnancy because when I read back on the notes, there are notes that's history of anxiety. So if you're ever like, this is also for people who are listening, say what's happening, tell your doctor, even if you think it's silly, just have it.

Chelsea (54:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (55:20)
And if you're like worried at all, just like say it, you know, so they, so they have it like, and I think that's what helped get us through or why they were like, okay, yeah, this is like anxiety. That's why we're going to start you on Zoloft. I should also mentioned I have had, I have had three procedures on my perineum, which is also just like adds to the just

Chelsea (55:24)
Yeah.

McKenzie (55:44)
you know, shit show of postpartum. And I forget what they're called now, but they're basically like growths on the scar tissue, like the scar tissue like grew outside of the inside grew on the outside of where they stitched me up. So I had to have three procedures to like remove all of those, which was really fun as well.

Chelsea (55:53)
Yeah.

I do that, I say that same thing. I always like, that's fun. I don't know if that's like a New England thing or a generational thing, but it's just like, that was fun when it was 100 % not fun.

McKenzie (56:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, because,

right, because at that point it's just like, what can you do? And honestly, that was like the least of my worries. And also, like now I'm like in pelvic floor therapy, like, you know, your insides just fall out and everything's just a hot mess.

Chelsea (56:19)
Right, right. Yeah.

Yeah!

I hate that the hardest part about the hardest part about like sessions like this is that there are so many questions that I that I want to ask and

McKenzie (56:35)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (56:46)
So this is gonna seem like such a tiny little question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Were you aware at all of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders prior to having kids or having your son?

McKenzie (56:53)
Mm-hmm.

It's very yes postpartum depression I Didn't I didn't realize I don't think I knew about postpartum anxiety to this extent You know, they talked about post postpartum depression versus the baby blues like you read about that you hear about that a lot

Chelsea (57:09)
Yup.

McKenzie (57:23)
My biggest concern was like postpartum psychosis because like as I was pregnant, I saw on the news like some woman murdered all three of her kids and then jumped out a window. know, I'm like, holy shit, like how does that happen? So that was like my greatest fear. And I'm also like, here I am having anxiety about this. Like, here's your sign. Didn't know how to pick up on it. So and quite honestly, like I am very grateful that it was postpartum anxiety and not depression because I feel like depression

is a lot harder to deal with. Like I knew I wanted to get better. Like I was looking forward to feeling better. And I know women who are dealing with postpartum depression, and depression in general, it's like you might not feel that way. Like you're feeling like this is how you're supposed to feel. And like I knew this, like how I was feeling was not normal for me at least, and just was, yeah, no.

Chelsea (58:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

McKenzie (58:23)
It wasn't great.

Chelsea (58:25)
I want to take an opportunity to highlight

what you just said too, like you had so much fear about postpartum psychosis. so PMADS, because the world loves acronyms, perinatal mood and anxiety disorders, there is a whole range of them and you listed three of them, like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum psychosis, there's also postpartum OCD, there's also postpartum rage, which is just now becoming a little more recognized. There is a whole spectrum. It's a whole spectrum.

McKenzie (58:37)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (58:57)
To hear you say like the biggest one that you feared was postpartum psychosis is another really common thing that and the narrative around that is so misunderstood and I know exactly the story that you're talking about

McKenzie (59:10)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (59:11)
And because of stories like that in the media, there is a misunderstanding of postpartum psychosis. So that's not what your story is about and that's not what this is about, but I wanted to grasp onto that for a minute, especially for listeners. You can check out my stuff, but I'm not a mental health professional. do consult with mental health professionals, but please do your research on all perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. Postpartum psychosis.

McKenzie (59:23)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (59:38)
is an emergency, but it is not a death sentence. is not. It is treatable. It is not your fault. None of these mood disorders are your fault. But and I am actually reading a book right now that I would suggest everybody read. It's called A Mom Like That and it's a memoir of postpartum psychosis. And I've had guests with postpartum psychosis.

McKenzie (59:40)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Chelsea (1:00:04)
Please do your research so that you don't have to feel scared. You don't have to feel scared. That's just my, I don't want to take any more time away from you and your story, but that I needed to grasp and just say, look into it. Because the media wants you to be petrified and wants you to think that if you have postpartum psychosis, that you are a baby killer. And that is a hundred percent not the case. You need help. You need help.

McKenzie (1:00:07)
Mm.

you

Right, like you need help and that's okay.

yep. Right.

Chelsea (1:00:34)
immediately, but

you need help with all of- I mean, yes, postpartum psychosis is an immediate emergency, but any PMAD you deserve help, and it's not your fault. Yeah.

McKenzie (1:00:45)
Yes. Right. And also,

and I like how you said just do your research. Somebody who has anxiety, my therapist and I have also worked on this. Being informed versus being Dr. Google. So like, yes, right. Yeah, right. So, yeah, so I do that also.

Chelsea (1:00:58)
Yes, don't over-research that's I am guilty of that. Yes.

Yes.

McKenzie (1:01:09)
Which I think, you know, that's a symptom of what happened to me and I'm working on not doing Right in there I just said it, a symptom of what happened to me, of what I went through. You know, to take back some of that, take back some of my ownership in the story. That it's something that I survived, which also feels weird to say. Right. Yes. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:01:12)
Yeah.

Yes.

It's 100 % true though, you are a survivor and a warrior. You are, and you're still

doing it. You're still doing it. You're still, you said you're still in therapy. like you, yes. Like, so I always say like Quiet Connection, we don't promote programs or products or fixes. We don't do that. That's not what we're here for. But the one thing that I will, like the hill that I will die on is go to therapy. Talk to your doctor and talk to a therapist.

McKenzie (1:01:37)
Yeah.

Hell yeah.

Mm-hmm, yes.

Yep.

Chelsea (1:02:00)
because they can help you but no you are and and and i'm not gonna like sit here and like belittle you at all and say like no like belittle isn't the right word but i'm not gonna say like don't i don't even know how to word it like i want to say like don't gaslight yourself or like don't this or don't that

McKenzie (1:02:03)
Exactly.

Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (1:02:24)
But I did the exact same thing and I still do to this day. there's this whole thing that I'm learning about like own your stigma and owning the stigma doesn't mean letting the experience own you. It's saying like, that's something that happened and it's something that is happening, but I have ownership over how I'm moving forward with it. And you're doing that.

McKenzie (1:02:26)
Mm-hmm.

and therapy helped. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:02:51)
You are. Yeah.

I haven't even like looked at my notes once. You've been like so amazing. Like, my gosh.

McKenzie (1:02:59)
Yes, sorry, I just like,

I had to word vomit. Like I feel like I like to tell this story. Yes.

Chelsea (1:03:03)
that's the best my god i don't okay so

i always tell everybody my every my best episodes and when i say best i mean like the most impactful are the ones where my guests say i just had word vomit and i'm like that's what yes that's what this is about

McKenzie (1:03:18)
Yeah.

Yes, right, just to tell the story, get it out in one place. You know, I've told it a thousand times, but like I'll keep telling it just so it reaches one person. I have like, I have friends who like now are like, I started on antidepressants being pregnant because I didn't want to go through what you went through. And I'm like, yes, good. Beautiful. Yes.

Chelsea (1:03:29)
Yeah!

Yeah, like be proactive. And that journey isn't

for everyone, but if it's for you, like if you know that you're susceptible to these things or you know that you're predisposition to these things, like talk to your doctor, make a plan. and I also want to acknowledge, like you're, you're still, you're still navigating this. You're still having trauma responses. You're still having like, so the strength in your vulnerability is.

McKenzie (1:03:52)
Yes.

Yeah.

Chelsea (1:04:09)
beautiful and admirable and I'm so thankful to you and people like you who will continue to tell your story. Yeah, you're taking ownership over it, you're taking power back from it and I call it selfish selflessness. Like it feels good to tell the story but it also you're doing it so that someone else out there is like holy shit.

McKenzie (1:04:18)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (1:04:37)
Okay, okay, I'm not alone or I'm not crazy. Yeah. And that's insanely powerful.

McKenzie (1:04:40)
Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Yes. And it's so funny. Yes, the things that I focus on and there's like a million other things that happen too. right, like I exactly. like randomly started waking up in hives and haven't had them since. Yeah, no, didn't know that. And then my everyone's like, just take allergy meds. And I'm like, OK, cool. Yeah, exactly.

Chelsea (1:04:53)
Right? Yeah, because we could talk about this forever.

Did you know anxiety could give you hives? Yeah.

You're like, no, I don't want Benadryl that way, right? And

yes, and hydroxyzine, like the doctors won't tell you that they prescribe it for anxiety a lot, but it's an antihistamine. That's what it is. So yeah,

McKenzie (1:05:21)
Right. Right.

Chelsea (1:05:25)
You are, you said your son is

13 months? Okay, so you are still in the postpartum period. I like to go out on a limb and say we will always be postpartum. I feel like once you have a baby, you're always postpartum, but I'm not a doctor. Where you are today versus where you were 13 months ago, 12 months ago, 10 months ago. How are you feeling about your relationship with yourself?

McKenzie (1:05:28)
Mm-hmm, yep.

Mm-hmm.

I sometimes describe it as too connected.

Chelsea (1:05:58)
Okay.

McKenzie (1:05:58)
because I notice every single thing that happens in my body, which I think is also like the anxiety, right? Like I'm like, ooh, like this feels different in my heart. Like my heart is making a different beating pattern. Ooh, like I feel like a little dizzy. What is that? So like I notice every single thing that happens in my body. So I'm very connected with it, which is like, you know, the thorn and the rose.

Chelsea (1:06:04)
Mm-hmm.

McKenzie (1:06:24)
which I go back and forth about how much I appreciate that because often I'm like, okay, this is just gonna make me more anxious, but it's nice to feel it and be able to recognize and really know myself physically. Emotionally, feel, literally this past year, my emotional maturity has grown exponentially.

Chelsea (1:06:38)
Yeah.

McKenzie (1:06:45)
My ability to just like recognize emotions in myself, especially, and like handle those emotions has been really great. Even like the good emotions. I think, like I said it earlier, like I think I was like, had just like kind of neutral in my life. And like, I just like operated at this kind of like neutral level. And so when I hit postpartum, it like wicked spiked.

And now I'm at a place where it's like stays around neutral, but it fluctuates and like, can appreciate all of those emotions. Like I remember saying to my therapist recently, like, Ooh, like I decreased my meds. I feel like I have a fuller range of my emotions, which has been great. like physically, emotionally, I think I've also like go back and forth. Like we haven't, didn't really talk about like body image at all, but that's something that like, right. And so I think like,

Chelsea (1:07:25)
Yeah.

That's, yeah, that's another big topic.

McKenzie (1:07:42)
learning to accept the way that my body is now is part of the journey as well. But I feel like compared to a year ago, compared to myself, even when I got pregnant, I'm so much more self-aware. And I think that's why I'm kind of thankful the way that everything worked out, because it's made me honestly a better, stronger woman, I think. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:07:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

that was so beautifully said. And yeah, I'd love to explore so many other facets of your story. And you know what, you're welcome back anytime and we can talk more. But and this is the first time I've done this, but

McKenzie (1:08:16)
Thank you. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:08:22)
I almost always end on one of two questions and I don't choose it ahead of time. I wait until the end of the session and then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go this way. I'm gonna do a completely different question with you. this, yeah, like you're a mold breaker here. Typically my question goes to like going back in time like way before, like when you were in your teens or like whatever. I don't want

McKenzie (1:08:34)
Okay, let's... yeah.

Chelsea (1:08:50)
that far, I especially given what you just said, I if if the you sitting in front of me right now could go back to the you in that mother-baby unit and usually I'll say and still something I want you to just tell her something like what would you tell her?

McKenzie (1:09:02)
Mm.

Probably it gets better.

Chelsea (1:09:11)
Yeah. And I mean, right? And how simple is that? But how powerful is that? I always, I always like, I try to make, I try to like do this thing where I'm like, okay, you can't tell yourself anything, you can just instill yourself with something, but I feel like that you needed to physically hear those words.

McKenzie (1:09:12)
Yeah.

Yes.

Right, I say this a lot too, like I wish I could go back to that version of me as this version of me. Like I feel like I owe that to my son, you know, because like I didn't know up from down. And I feel like this version is so much more connected that I would love to like give that to him when he was first born.

Chelsea (1:09:42)
Right.

Yeah.

I can understand that and I also want to offer to you as well, like all he's gonna remember, I mean, he's not gonna remember anything. He's not gonna remember any of this, but what you have instilled in him is that mom was there and that mom took care of herself so that she would continue to be there. So that's huge. That's incredibly powerful.

McKenzie (1:10:06)
yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chelsea (1:10:20)
powerful is my word today. It's usually beautiful, but powerful is my word. So yeah, I think I think this feels like that deep sigh moment. so I just, I want to a I want to thank you for reaching out. I'm so grateful that our like seven degrees of separation brought us together.

McKenzie (1:10:24)
Yes, I love that.

You

Chelsea (1:10:46)
Absolutely, you are welcome back anytime. We can chat more because it feels like I can feel there's so much more there. But thank you for telling your story. Thank you for for wanting to be a beacon for others to know that it does get better. And yeah, just thank you. Thank you so much.

McKenzie (1:11:06)
Yes, and

thank you for having me and having an outlet like this for anybody who needs it and just so people can hear

Chelsea (1:11:17)
Mackenzie, thank you so much for sharing your story with me. The strength and vulnerability you exude are powerful and so much of what you talked about resonated with me. Thank you for raising your voice for yourself and others. And I truly do hope that we get to have another opportunity to chat. You can keep up with us on Quiet Connection by following us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at Quiet Connection podcast.

You can help our community grow by leaving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify and consider sharing our episodes on social media. To share your personal journey, you can contact us through our website at quietconnectionpodcast.com or by email at quietconnectionppmh at gmail.com. Join us next time when another story is told and you realize you are not alone. I see you.