Emily G - A Call for Postpartum Support

What happens when a maternal mental health expert becomes the patient? In this raw and resonant episode, psychologist and mom of two, Emily Guarnotta, shares her deeply personal journey through postpartum depression—and how it blindsided her despite her professional training. From the unexpected shock of new motherhood to the guilt of not instantly bonding with her baby, Emily opens up about the isolating moments that shaped her path both as a mother and a mental health provider. 

This is an episode for anyone who’s ever felt alone in the fog, questioned their worth, or wondered if asking for help meant they were failing. Spoiler: It doesn’t. 

To learn more about Emily, visit her Instagram or Website. 

Takeaways

• Emily pivoted her career to focus on maternal mental health after her own struggles.
• Pregnancy can be perceived as normal, but postpartum challenges are often unexpected.
• Postpartum depression can evolve from baby blues and may take time to recognize.
• Stigma surrounding mental health can prevent professionals from seeking help.
• Support systems are crucial for new parents, yet many feel isolated.
• Therapy can be a vital resource, but finding the right fit is essential.
• Sharing personal stories can help destigmatize mental health issues.
• High-functioning anxiety and perfectionism can increase the risk of PMADs.
• A team-oriented approach in maternal care can improve outcomes.
• Open conversations about feelings are important for children’s emotional development.

Sound Bites
"I felt a lot of dread."
"It’s hard to not take it personal."
"It takes a village to raise a child."

Transcript

Chelsea (00:01)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. This week, Emily, a mom and psychologist focused on maternal mental health, shares her journey into parenting and her unexpected struggle with postpartum depression. She highlights the importance of support systems, the challenges of transitioning into motherhood, and the transformation of her practice, Phoenix Health.

to prioritize maternal mental health. Here's Emily.

Chelsea (00:34)
Hello today, I'm here with Emily. Emily, how are you?

Emily Guarnotta (00:39)
I'm doing well, how are you?

Chelsea (00:41)
I'm doing pretty good. I'm very excited to connect with you. I'm always excited to connect when I meet someone through my website, when they reach out through my website, because I'm like, my gosh, people are seeing it. So this is just me being thankful and excited that that's how we connected. I have a whole list of things about you, but it would be so much better coming from you. I'd love it if you

Introduce yourself and let us know who was Emily before Emily was a mom.

Emily Guarnotta (01:13)
Sure, so my name is Emily Gornada and as you mentioned, I am a mom, but I'm also a psychologist and I work with other moms. So I specialize in working with maternal mental health and perinatal mental health. And Emily, before she was a mom, that's actually, that's a question I've never been asked before. So I love that you're asking that question. I don't even think I've thought of that.

Chelsea (01:36)
You

Emily Guarnotta (01:41)
six plus years. But yeah, Emily, before she was a mom, she was a really dedicated therapist, dedicated psychologist. My career has always been really important to me. And then when I became a mom and I struggled personally, it became even more important. And that's when I really pivoted the work that I did to work more with moms and families.

that we're also struggling.

Chelsea (02:10)
yeah. And so like you mentioned, you work in the mental health field and that you sort of pivoted after you had your... Do you have one kid or do you have more than one? Two kids. Okay. All right. After you had your kids, were you sort of aware of the perinatal mental health field prior to your experience with P-MADS?

Emily Guarnotta (02:20)
I have two girls, there three and six.

I kind of knew there was this world out there that helped moms. I kind of knew that, I mean, I think, even though I was in the field, I think I was still pretty naive. I mean, I had heard of postpartum depression. I don't even think I really knew what postpartum anxiety really was, because that's kind of the one that people don't really talk about, let alone all the other stuff like birth trauma and postpartum psychosis.

I would say it really wasn't on my radar until I became pregnant. And that's when I started diving a little bit more into learning about these things. And I wasn't yet personally impacted. My struggles didn't start till I was postpartum. But when I was pregnant, I felt this desire to just learn more about what women, what moms were going through during this journey. that's when learning about perinatal mental health.

kind of became a passion for me.

Chelsea (03:31)
Yeah, which is really common. And even a lot of women and birthing people, they don't hear about it at all until they're affected by it.

Emily Guarnotta (03:34)
Yeah.

Chelsea (03:42)
So yeah, so you were very passionate about the work that you were doing before becoming a parent. You're going into the journey of having kids. You're starting to explore perinatal mental health.

In that in-between time, what was pregnancy like for you? What kind of experience was that?

Emily Guarnotta (04:03)
Pregnancy was actually, was pretty normal and I feel kind of strange using the word normal, but normal in the sense that I didn't have any complications. Everything kind of went according to plan and according to the book. And I feel very fortunate that that was my experience, because there are many families that don't have that experience, but everything just kind of went according to plan.

I naively kind of thought that that's just what my Motherhood journey was gonna continue to look like, that it would just continue to be kind of typical, normal. I'm using these words in quotes, but you you know what I mean. I really didn't have, I didn't have any issues, honestly, during the pregnancy.

Chelsea (04:42)
Yeah.

and I like that you specify like typical and normal in quotations because like what is normal? What is normal and what is common? But it sounds like the pregnancy journey at least is was what you might have expected.

When did things kind of shift for you in terms of your mental health?

Emily Guarnotta (05:13)
I would say pretty immediately after birth. I had a really long labor and a really long delivery process. I was pushing for five hours. I was in labor for a really long time. So I was really, I remember feeling really just physically exhausted by the time that my baby arrived. And I had dreamt of that moment my whole life. I think a lot of people do.

And it's certainly played up in our culture that it's gonna be the most magical moment when your baby's put on your chest. And it was special in a lot of ways, but I remember kind of feeling like I'm so exhausted right now that I can't fully appreciate this moment. And then it was immediate guilt, you know? And I think I naively kind of thought that in that moment, the specialness or the beauty of that

Chelsea (06:02)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (06:11)
experience overshadows any exhaustion you're feeling, any stress, any anxiety. But for me, like I was already aware of those feelings creeping in

Chelsea (06:24)
it was literally like right after delivery things. Yeah, yeah. You said that you had that immediate guilt as well too. Did that sort of continue through your postpartum journey? What did those first few days or first few weeks look like for you?

Emily Guarnotta (06:28)
Yeah.

The first few days in the hospital, I just remember feeling so exhausted. And my husband, my partner, he was there and he was also extremely exhausted. He was coming off of, I think he was working overnights, maybe a day or two before I had gone into labor. So he was already sleep deprived, going into everything. Like I mentioned, I was in labor for a really long time. So he was in and out of sleep.

during that time, certainly not quality sleep. So he was very exhausted and I was exhausted. I know this is the experience for so many families, you know, that give birth in a hospital setting. But again, I had kind of naively thought that there would be some relief or support in the hospital or some assistance, but.

you know, almost immediately we were kind of like, this is all on us. Like there's no one coming to help us. There's no one coming to save us. They're coming in to check on us and check my temperature and make sure the baby's okay. But no one's here to actually help us. And that was really scary to me because I felt like I had no idea what I was doing. And the hospital was really a struggle. By the time that we were ready to leave and go home,

Chelsea (07:46)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (08:09)
I was so exhausted that I was kind of at my breaking point. And I did have a family member who I offered to come and stay the night just to help. So we had a little bit more hands on deck. that was very helpful for one night. But then that night after, I was like, now we're alone again and no one's coming to save us. No one's coming to help us. And it was like that constant just sense of fear. And how am I going to do this?

Chelsea (08:28)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (08:36)
night after night for the foreseeable future.

Chelsea (08:39)
Yeah. And I think it's important to note too that, like you said, like this is something you dreamed of. This is something that you were anticipating and wanting and still feeling that fear and uncertainty and how common that is. But we don't realize that. We don't realize that until we experience that.

When did you sort of start to recognize that the struggle was becoming like real real? Like this was more than baby blues or this was more than just adjusting to new parenthood?

Emily Guarnotta (09:14)
To be honest, I think it took me years to admit that it was postpartum depression. at no point within, certainly not within the first year ever admitted it, but looking back in hindsight, it definitely evolved from the baby blues into postpartum depression. know, within that, usually baby blues are about two weeks. Within that two weeks, I was still continuing to feel really low.

just really depressed, really, the word? I was just, kind of like dread. I felt a lot of dread. And that was, yeah, that was all within the first month. So it just kind of evolved from baby blues into a perinatal mental health condition.

Chelsea (09:48)
Yeah.

and you can see that in retrospect now. Do you feel like the stigma surrounding perinatal mental health disorders on top of this notion that mental health professionals can't have mental health struggles, do you think that played a role in the amount of time it took you to recognize? Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (10:21)
100%. Yeah.

I felt so much shame in the fact that I was struggling and I had so many therapists, friends, people in the profession, and I felt too embarrassed to let them know what I was actually feeling. I also felt with family members that if I admitted that I think this is what it is, I was going to be seen as a fraud. So I really kept that to myself.

Chelsea (10:46)
Mm.

Emily Guarnotta (10:50)
for a long time. And I think so many, so many birthing people experience that stigma, even if they're not in the mental health profession, but there's definitely this sense that, you know, I'm weak if I admit that this is what's happening, or it can happen to other people. And I empathize with that, but not for me.

Chelsea (11:07)
yeah, absolutely. That definitely resonates with me. I know it'll will resonates with a lot of parents, new parents, first time parents, doesn't matter how many times you have kids. Every experience is different.

Emily Guarnotta (11:19)
And even if you're not, again, you might be someone who doesn't judge other people who are struggling, know, a friend's going through it and you really feel for that friend, no judgment, you wanna be there for them. But when it's you that has it, it's still, there's something about admitting I'm dealing with postpartum depression or anxiety that is just, it's so hard to say that out loud to another person or even to yourself.

Chelsea (11:26)
Exactly.

Absolutely, that's what I was gonna say, to even to admit it to yourself. Was anybody in your support system aware of what was going on? Did you feel like you had anybody to sort of turn to?

Emily Guarnotta (11:58)
I certainly had people that I could share some of the day-to-day stressors with, but I really struggled and I can't put the blame on them. It was really me that was not, did not feel comfortable verbalizing really the extent of what I was going through. And I think a lot of my depression, and this is something that I see happen with a lot of other...

birthing people to that develop postpartum depression or anxiety is that it can manifest as irritability. And when it manifests as irritability, you can kind of be seen as, you know, for lack of better words, like a bitchy person. Like you can kind of come across like that and it can be off putting to people. And it's hard for people to look at you and say, you know, maybe this bitchiness is coming from this other thing.

Chelsea (12:38)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (12:50)
and isn't their personality.

Chelsea (12:51)
Well, and then you can you get I mean, you are much more well versed in this than I am. But then you get into postpartum rage, which is a real thing that people don't talk about. It's all it's all tied back. And it's not you. And it's not your fault.

Emily Guarnotta (13:07)
I think though, when it is more of that, when it's more externalized, like with irritability or rage, it's a lot harder for the people in your circle to have empathy for you, because they just don't understand it. So then it's this kind of extra layer of, and you're feeling bad and guilty and ashamed that you're lashing out or, you know, coming across rude to other people and you don't quite understand really what's happening. You almost can't control it.

Chelsea (13:18)
Yes.

Emily Guarnotta (13:35)
But it's really hard for your support system to be there for you. It's a lot easier to have empathy for a person who's sad than it is for someone who's irritable or angry all the time. So it kind of does distance you from the support that could be there for you.

Chelsea (13:41)
Hmm.

Yeah, that's a really important distinction to be made too. And to keep in mind, like if you're feeling these things, if you are and you feel like you're like, wow, I'm being really bitchy. Like I'm noticing myself feeling this way. It's not you. It's not you. that's, it's a deeper issue. And you are worthy of support and you are worthy of help.

Emily Guarnotta (14:13)
And it's good for people in your circle to kind of check in on you if you are displaying some of those things. It's hard to not take it personal, but if you can kind of take a step back and say, this isn't typical of this person to kind of act in this way, maybe I should check in on their mental health or really see how they're doing. Try to put my feelings aside. Again, I know it's hard when someone's directing irritability or anger at you, but it's just something important to keep in mind.

Chelsea (14:17)
Yes.

this is why I love having mental health professionals on who also went through.

a PMAD experience because you come, you obviously bring your personal experience and how you, and how you navigated it. But I love being able to provide listeners with tools in the toolbox. Obviously this is not a replacement for therapy or this is not like, this is, this is not like, okay, listen to this podcast episode and you're going to be okay. But I love getting those little nuggets, not only for birthing people, but for partners, like you just said, like keep an

out. Check in. It's not personal. It might feel personal, but it's not. Taking it back to you and your journey.

did that experience coming into motherhood, new motherhood, how did that sort of impact your relationships in terms of like relationship with yourself, relationship with your partner and your relationship with your new baby?

Emily Guarnotta (15:40)
I think as far as my relationship with myself, I really didn't know who I was. And I was really desperately trying to figure out who this new version of me was. I remember my husband and I were running errands and I stayed in the car with the baby. And this must have been like a couple of weeks postpartum. And I remember sitting there while she's sleeping and Googling, when do you feel like yourself again after having a baby? And

Chelsea (16:04)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (16:05)
The

consensus on Google was 12 weeks. And I was like, my gosh, 12 weeks, only three, four weeks in, how am I going to make it? And then when I got to 12 weeks and I thought, no, this can't be right. They had to have gotten it wrong because I certainly don't feel like I figured anything out 12 weeks in. So that was a really long discovery to kind of find myself again, find this new version of me that I think

is still kind of evolving years later, six years later. With my partner,

You know, I think we went through some of the typical experiences that can happen in a marriage when you have a baby where you're just, you're overtired, there's so many more demands on you, so you're a little bit shorter with each other. But we were able to kind of band together and do our best and really work on what we had to, and we had been together for a long time, so I think.

that helps that we kind of knew, we knew who we were before she came. So we knew we were gonna figure out who we were after, but we knew that it was gonna take time. And I think that that helped, that perspective. And with my new baby, so hard, because I've heard people who have gone through postpartum depression and anxiety and other PMADS talk about this that,

Sometimes it's hard to look back at the pictures of when they're newborns or the videos because they're so cute and you look back and you remember how you felt when you took that picture. I think it did take time for me to bond with her. I mean, I certainly loved her right away and was so grateful for her, but that sentiment that you were gonna instantly bond wasn't the case for me.

Chelsea (17:43)
Yep.

Emily Guarnotta (17:59)
That was a journey.

Chelsea (18:00)
And that is that's a narrative that is really heavily pushed is that just like you were saying, like when you meet your baby, it's going to be this magical experience. Like that's what we're told. it and it's I think it's more common to have to sort of build that bond. It takes work and there's nothing wrong with that.

And it doesn't mean you don't love them. And it doesn't mean they're not wanted. so you said you didn't really acknowledge it or recognize it for what it was at the time.

you think you ever really got back to baseline before deciding to have another?

Emily Guarnotta (18:37)
Well, did. So it took me about eight months after my first daughter was born to find a therapist again. I had been, you know, in and out of therapy and being in the profession. You know, you kind of have to be in therapy when you're in school. It's part of the requirements. And I had done it personally on my own too throughout my life. So I decided to go back into therapy. And unfortunately, the provider that I was working with

Chelsea (18:46)
Okay.

Emily Guarnotta (19:06)
She just really wasn't well-versed in perinatal mental health. And some of the things that she said, though I think they were well-meaning, they came across very judgy at the time. So it was really hard to connect to her and feel supported. So I worked with her for a little bit, but I actually ended up feeling like it was causing more harm than helping at that time. So I stopped working with her. I took a little break and then probably...

Chelsea (19:17)
Hmm.

Emily Guarnotta (19:35)
My daughter was probably a little more than a year. I decided to search for another therapist and I found the therapist that I continue to work with now. that getting into therapy again really helped me heal with someone who I felt safe with. And then I think part of it was just like time too, just time and becoming, adjusting to motherhood, going through the different stages. I think different stages are hard for different people.

And for me, the newborn stage is always very So when I get out of that stage, I can kind of breathe a little bit better and then I can kind of get my bearings. So I did feel, I did feel pretty at my new baseline, I would say. I was at my new baseline by the time that I had my second child. And that, of course, that coincided with COVID. So I found out I was

Chelsea (20:21)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (20:31)
pregnant with her in March, 2020. And I did have other challenges during that pregnancy, the stress of the pandemic. My father-in-law was unfortunately diagnosed with terminal brain cancer when I was pregnant with her and he passed away when she was five months old. kind of dealing with his health journey and watching him die through that time was really difficult. But...

Chelsea (20:33)
my gosh.

Emily Guarnotta (20:58)
I think actually I felt like I had to be strong during that time for my family. I, interestingly enough, I certainly dealt with the baby blues and I had low moments postpartum with my second child, but I wouldn't say that I slipped back into postpartum depression. I was also in therapy that whole time too. So that helped.

Chelsea (21:18)
I'm really... Yeah.

I'm really sorry that that's a whirlwind and a storm of experiences to have to go through while you're also pregnant and have another child to take care of. I absolutely feel for

and it's another perfect example of every pregnancy and birth is different. And you were a little more mentally prepared in terms of, at least for perinatal mental health disorders. Definitely weren't prepared for the world to shut down and to experience health challenges within your family. But it sounds like you were a little more equipped in terms of like what to look out for should your mental health start to slip again. When did things start to sort of

Emily Guarnotta (21:50)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (22:07)
translate over into your professional practice and you are the founder and owner of Phoenix Health, Maternal Mental When did that start to sort of develop?

Emily Guarnotta (22:21)
So I would say I kind of slowly dipped my toe into it after my first daughter was born when I felt like when I had gotten back into therapy and I was healing. I started taking more certifications and trainings in perinatal mental after my second baby, at that time I felt like I was in a good space.

to begin this work. So that's when I shifted my practice to working with other families that were going through similar things.

Chelsea (22:53)
did you find it, I've met with a few other mental health professionals who have now transitioned into the perinatal mental health field. Did you find it challenging to kind of figure out how to get those certifications or did you know where to look?

Emily Guarnotta (23:07)
I was actually, it's funny, I think I kind of intuitively knew that that's the direction I was gonna go in because before I was even pregnant and during my first pregnancy, I was already kind of researching them. So they were on my radar. So when I did feel ready, I kind of knew exactly what steps to take.

Chelsea (23:19)
Yeah.

amazing. A lot of the people that I've spoken to, PSI, Postpartum Support International, does a lot of that certification for a lot of people. I'm not sure if that's the route that you took or not. Yeah, but that's kind of, they're like the leading slash the only in our country. So for a lot of mental health professionals who go into perinatal mental health, it...

Emily Guarnotta (23:40)
Yeah, is.

Chelsea (23:55)
It comes from experiencing it because otherwise you'd never know where to look Because it's not... Correct me if I'm wrong. The last that I knew, perinatal mental health disorders aren't in the DSM. They're umbrellaed under other mental health disorders. Yeah, so it's not something that mental health professionals are being trained in necessarily.

Emily Guarnotta (24:12)
Correct.

We're

not taught about them in school. When we take our diagnostic classes, I couldn't even tell you if they were mentioned when we were going through the DSM in school. If they were, it was very brief. Yet it's such a, I mean, when you think about the reproductive years in a birthing person's life, it spans their 20s or 30s or 40s.

Chelsea (24:36)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (24:48)
part of their teens. It's a huge chunk of time when people are vulnerable to these conditions and for it to not get the attention that it really deserves is extremely concerning.

Chelsea (25:00)
Yeah, which is why I'm thankful for people like you and for other perinatal mental health professionals that I've gotten to connect with because one, you're doing work that needs desperately needs to be done. mean, we can agree that mental health, the state of mental health in this country, mental health care is not where it should be. But if you take it a step further and you narrow that lens in to perinatal mental health, it's abysmal.

nothing. So to know that there are people like you out here doing this work and sharing your story and helping other birthing people gives me for whatever that's worth.

Emily Guarnotta (25:43)
Thank you. And you know what? It's such a help for us all to talk about it. mean, you sharing this on your podcast and having these open conversations about it and everyone out there in the world that's having conversations about it, whether it's sharing their story or just destigmatizing it in some way, everyone's doing their part and we all need to do this together. It's definitely a team effort.

Chelsea (26:08)
Absolutely. When did it sort of become important to you to share your own story?

Emily Guarnotta (26:15)
That's a good question. I would actually say in the last year, I've kind of pieced my story together. And again, I mean, this really speaks to the stigma of it, but for the longest time, I didn't share that I was a PMAD survivor. I just felt like it was gonna, I think I thought it would take away from my credibility. And then in the last year, I've really...

Chelsea (26:40)
Mm.

Emily Guarnotta (26:44)
just done a lot of reflecting and I've seen how my story helps me as a clinician and my story isn't something I share necessarily in sessions with my clients unless it really is appropriate and it's really gonna be helpful but it's not necessarily a part of my therapy with people but understanding my story and just having a cohesive story for myself makes me a better.

clinician and then being able to share it with people like yourself, it's just, I feel like it's just been so amazing. It's been so just relieving to get it out there. And I think a lot of people experience that even if you journal about it or you talk about it, you share it with a friend, there's just so much relief in sharing it with other people and not just keeping it inside.

Chelsea (27:36)
Yeah, that's what we're trying to do. That's the whole idea behind quiet connection. Although we're not so quiet anymore. We're getting louder, which I think is good.

Obviously, I'm not going to ask about client-specific stuff or anything like that, but are there some common denominators that you find with the birthing people that you work with experiencing PMADS, or maybe some, to even take it a step further, things that you're hearing often that resonate with you?

Emily Guarnotta (28:09)
think a lot of the, you you see a lot of trends in terms of people who are at greater risk for developing PMADS. So people who have a lack of support and really a perceived lack of support. So the actual size of your support system doesn't matter as much as how you feel about the quality of your support system. But people who feel like they don't have a good quality support system are more vulnerable.

to postpartum depression and other PMADS. One thing that I learned later on that was really interesting was how people who have kind of high functioning anxiety, perfectionist tendencies, type A personalities are also at greater risk for PMADS. that's something that's, those are traits that I certainly resonate with. And there's a lot of reasons for that, you know.

Chelsea (29:04)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (29:07)
Like we really thrive on feeling in control and having a new baby, your life feels very much out of control. So that's something that I also hear come up in my practice too, with clients who kind of have those personality traits. And often those personality traits are really helpful when they're pre-baby, if they're in their careers and they're working really hard and they find a lot of success and they really appreciate those parts of themselves.

but then when you have a new baby and you have to try to be really flexible and more kind of go with the flow, it's really hard to adapt in that way.

Chelsea (29:46)
I definitely resonates with me. I can tell you that

So another reason that I really like to have mental health professionals who have experienced this is because I get to ask a question that I don't get to ask very often. And it's a little challenging and it might put you on the spot a little bit. But if you could sort of design or if you could make changes to the way that we handle

birthing people in the postpartum period so that they so that every birthing person gets the support that they need but especially in terms of postpartum mental health and perinatal mental health. What do you think some of the biggest and most important changes to our system would need to be?

Emily Guarnotta (30:28)
A high level answer, personally, think more, just a more team oriented approach. There are resources out there, for postpartum individuals, but they're not all accessible for various reasons, cost, location. Another big problem is that there's not really coordination of care.

And I think postpartum individuals can be best served when their therapist can be in communication with their midwife, with their OBGYN, with their lactation consultant, and we can all work together as a team to help that person. I think that person just benefits from knowing also not just the quality of care that they would get from a team oriented approach, but just that sense of feeling cared for, you know, in other cultures.

Chelsea (31:21)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (31:22)
You have women in the village that come together and they all work together to support you physically, emotionally, to help with childcare. And there's a lot of relief in just feeling taken care of. And I don't think we do a good job of that in this country. And some people are very fortunate to have great support systems of people who come in and do that for them.

But there's a lot more people today that don't have that built into family or friendship circles or geographically isolated. And those people are really left out to dry.

Chelsea (31:57)
you feel post-COVID that it is even more of a challenge to build that village or that support network?

Emily Guarnotta (32:08)
I do think so. I think COVID's a factor. think there's so many social factors. For example, lot of grandparents are having to work and retirement, so they're not available to help. The cost of living is so much higher. There's just so many things that limit our access to help. And there's also generational differences, you know?

Chelsea (32:19)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (32:34)
Something that actually comes up a lot with my clients is the differences in how they were raised versus how they're raising their children. And that can get really disorienting. I see a lot of people kind of go through process of kind of really processing their childhood. And even if they didn't have any really big traumas in their childhood, they're kind of looking back and

Chelsea (32:43)
Yeah.

Emily Guarnotta (33:00)
They're going through it and they're feeling a lot of feelings about the way that they were raised and they don't know what to do with these feelings. They don't know if they should address them with their parents or caregivers, if they should stuff them away. How does this affect how they parent their own children? That's something often in therapy that we work through is all those feelings coming up and what to do with them. And so if anyone out there is experiencing that, it's very normal.

Chelsea (33:28)
there's a lot of, there's a big push in the, I fall under the elder millennial umbrella and there's a big push for us in terms of like reparenting ourselves. Like whether you experienced trauma as a child or not, it really is taking that lens and looking back and being like, like.

I definitely don't want to do it that way with my kiddo and it wasn't fair that it was done that way with me. So yeah, that's a big thing right now. Yeah, with that in mind, how do you approach the topic of mental health? Your kiddos are pretty young. How do you approach the topic of mental health in your own family?

Emily Guarnotta (34:02)
It's a really big thing.

We try to have really open conversations about feelings. And it's really cool because my one daughter, she's in first grade and she's starting to learn mindfulness in school. And I've tried to do some mindfulness with her at home, but she was never really into it. She didn't think it was cool. But now that she's doing it in school, she's bringing it back home. So we're able to do that together.

Chelsea (34:29)
Mm-hmm.

You

Emily Guarnotta (34:42)
So at their ages three and six, we just do a lot of talk about feelings, lot of talk about empathy and about, you know, some different coping skills that are appropriate for their age and that they're open to. And I think as that, as their ages get older, that conversation gets a lot more complicated, but it's even more important. So I have to be honest, I'm kind of nervous for those conversations as they get older.

They kind of scare me a little bit, even though I'm in the profession, but I know how important they are.

Chelsea (35:09)
Yeah.

you are not alone in that and I, and that's not unique to, to even being a mental health professional. I, my oldest is about to turn nine, like in just a couple of days and the conversations that we're having to have, have really shifted. And it is scary. It's like, I, nobody talked to me about these things when I was a kid. So yeah, I feel you a hundred percent. And it is scary.

So I think, I think

you're going about it in obviously the right way. You have your professional background, but just as a parent in general, none of us really know what we're doing. So it is scary. It's scary, but we're all doing our best to raise emotionally mindful and empathetic little humans. It sounds like that's what you're doing and you're doing a great job of that.

Emily Guarnotta (36:07)
Thank you.

Chelsea (36:08)
So your practice is Phoenix Health. You are on social media and I will absolutely tag your handles in the show notes. So listeners, if you're looking for more information, check the show notes and you can find out more about what Emily's doing. What are your hopes for Phoenix moving forward?

Emily Guarnotta (36:29)
Our hope is to continue to grow and to reach even more families. And like your question before about what I would change about the maternal mental health landscape, that team oriented approach. think our hope down the line is to be able as we grow and we have more resources available to be able to offer that, to kind of be that one stop shop for.

all the different types of support that you can benefit from, whether that's individual therapy, support groups, lactation consulting, et cetera.

Chelsea (37:04)
I love that. And if you don't already, which you probably do, but if you don't already, mom's maternal or mom's mental health initiative. I don't know if you've heard of them, but they're kind of, they're trying to do that same thing. So that might be a nice little connection to make. They're in a different state, but they're, that's what they're trying to do. And we need more people like you and we need

resources like Phoenix and like Moms Maternal Health that are really providing that wraparound and helping moms and birthing people feel cared for and taken care of and building that village.

Emily Guarnotta (37:47)
Yeah, the village looks different now than it did hundreds of thousands of years ago, but...

Chelsea (37:52)
Yes.

Emily Guarnotta (37:53)
I need to do a better job.

Chelsea (37:55)
We do. that saying that age-old saying that it takes a village to raise a child, like it takes a village to to build a mom, to build a family. Like it's not just that baby. It's not just that child. Like that whole family is now different and deserves to be cared for and supported. And yeah, we unfortunately we're having to sort of redefine what that looks like a little bit. But

super, super appreciate you coming on. I'm so thankful that you reached out. I'm grateful to be able to share your resources and your insight. I'm thankful to have been able to facilitate helping you share your personal story. and I think, I think I'll wrap with what

Do you hope my listeners take away from your story?

Emily Guarnotta (38:50)
I hope that people don't end up like me where they feel so much shame and admitting, or they kind of know something's not right, but they're afraid to admit even to themselves what it is. And I know I could say this, I could say this a hundred times, but to actually be in it and to do it is completely different. But there really is no shame in asking for help. And of course I'm saying that in hindsight, I struggled with it, but I just hope that people can understand and get it.

better than I did, that there really is no shame in asking for help if you're struggling.

Chelsea (39:24)
think that that's super important and I appreciate you driving that message home. So, yeah, just thank you so much for what you're doing and thank you for coming on.

Chelsea (39:37)
Emily, thank you for sharing your story and your insights as a mental health professional. I especially appreciate you taking the time to connect with me and my listeners, even though I know you weren't feeling your best. Thank you for the work that you're doing to help end the stigma and provide quality perinatal mental health care. Listeners, please be sure to check the show notes so you can learn more about Emily and Phoenix.

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