Marissa Z - It Wasn't Postpartum Depression

What happens when the picture-perfect idea of parenthood collides with the messy, isolating, and overwhelming reality? This week on Quiet Connection, Chelsea talks with therapist and author Marissa Z, who opens up about her shocking and painful entry into motherhood, the lack of bonding, the screaming, the despair—and the moment she realized: maybe she didn’t have postpartum depression… maybe this was just that hard. 

Together, they unpack what it means to validate struggle, how we pathologize discomfort, and why acknowledging the difficulty of parenthood could prevent mental health crises. Marissa's story is raw, eye-opening, and deeply relatable for anyone who ever felt like they missed the magic everyone else seems to have. 

Main Takeaways 

• Postpartum depression is real—but so is depression caused by the overwhelming experience of early parenting.
• There is a dangerous lack of language and support for parents who don't immediately bond or feel joy.
• Shame thrives in silence; validation and honesty are powerful tools for healing.
• You can love your child and still hate the job of parenting.
• Clinicians and systems must move beyond checklists and scales (like the Edinburgh) to meet parents where they are.

Sound Bites: 

1. "It wasn't that I was mentally ill. It was that this was just really freaking hard—and nobody said that."
2. "You either have postpartum depression or you're a monster. We need more options."
3. "I felt like the soul was being sucked out of me. No joy. Just responsibility and survival."
4. "Even as a licensed mental health professional, I missed it—because no one told me that not bonding was normal."
5. "Motherhood didn’t make me. It nearly broke me. But it also gave me a purpose."
6. "The baby screamed for months. I didn’t feel connected. I wanted to run—but I didn’t. That’s strength."
7. "I wish someone had said, ‘This is hard. Of course you’re struggling. That makes sense.’"

Transcript

Chelsea Myers (00:00)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. This week, I'm connecting with Marissa, a licensed mental health professional, author, and advocate for mom's mental health. Marissa is passionate about shifting the narrative surrounding motherhood, highlighting the need for more open discussions about the difficulties of parenting.

and the importance of recognizing that these challenges can lead to mental health issues. Let's hear from Marissa.

Chelsea (00:33)
Hello! Today I'm here with Marissa. Marissa, how are you?

Marissa Zwetow (00:38)
doing good, thank you so much.

Chelsea (00:40)
I'm so excited to finally get to chat with you. Marissa is another very gracious guest who has dealt with me through my various life challenges and has had to reschedule a few times. Well, I had to reschedule, so we appreciate you. So I know we were just talking about this recording, but I'll ask you what I ask all my guests.

Marissa Zwetow (00:56)
no worries.

Chelsea (01:05)
I would love it if you could introduce yourself and tell us who you were before coming into your parenting journey.

Marissa Zwetow (01:14)
That's a great question. what was the first part? Just that was just it. Who am I now? Okay. Okay. All right. So who am I? Who am I now? And then who I was before? Okay. I mean, I have to say that where I'm at in my healing journey, I am

Chelsea (01:17)
Who are you now? Who are you? Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (01:30)
so happy to say that it's very similar, but I totally get the question and I totally get what you're saying. I'd say I'm passionate about sharing about my journey and what came out of that that I think is so important, which of course we'll dive into, that wasn't even there before. But I mean things about myself, energetic, goofy, fun, thank God those things have stayed.

Chelsea (01:55)
have stayed.

Marissa Zwetow (01:55)
the same but to do kind of a side-by-side guilt is something I didn't quite have a relationship with until I became a parent

a control I didn't know I was a controlling person until I became a parent like my gosh it's almost like it's almost like I felt like I was was and still am a high achieving person but somehow I could stay on top of it or feel like it was working until I became a parent it was like wow

Chelsea (02:19)
Mm.

Marissa Zwetow (02:28)
I'm failing miserably and this high achieving personality is not serving me. So there you have it.

Chelsea (02:31)
Mmm.

I think a lot

of us feel that way. I think a lot of us, when we become parents, we're like, whoa, I don't have the control that I thought I did.

Marissa Zwetow (02:43)
Yeah, yeah, and maybe I shouldn't be so controlling. Yeah.

Chelsea (02:44)
Yeah.

What kind of things, what kind of things were you into? Like what, what filled your cup and maybe does again?

Marissa Zwetow (02:55)
Yeah, my goodness. Yeah, a lot of the same things. Still, high achieving go-getter. What's next? What am I working towards? I love being social, hanging out with people. I kind of definitely have a bit of this hard work, hard play kind of mentality, which gosh, becoming a parent.

Chelsea (03:12)
Uhhh

Marissa Zwetow (03:18)
I lost the hard play and it just, it was a lot of hard work. But I don't know, maybe you're looking for like specific fun facts. I don't, I don't know. I don't know that I have too many. I'm not, I, I might.

Chelsea (03:27)
It's anything. It's anything you want to share. Well, you're you

you're a licensed mental health professional You are and I would assume that that is a piece of your identity

Marissa Zwetow (03:34)
Yes, yes, yeah.

It is, yeah. And I totally did a 180 after becoming not just a parent, but having a horrific thrust into parenthood that I realized, wait a minute, I'm already a licensed mental health professional. I need to do something with this. So completely changed. And of course became more meaningful and purposeful at that point. Yeah.

Chelsea (03:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, it sounds like we can get right into the meat of this. It sounds like you're ready. I was just going to ask, so what was that journey like for you? Did you always picture yourself having children?

Marissa Zwetow (04:11)
I am. my gosh.

I did, yeah, and I was an older mother, which I think is relevant because I think, you know, I mentioned that high achieving personality. think the older that I was, just I had more and more.

experiences of yeah, I've got this and I can, you know, I can conquer this and do this and maybe more set in my ways, perhaps too. So I was 30, almost 36. I was a 36, but you know, late 30s. And yeah, and I yes, I had planned for and wanted a family. I don't want to be hard on myself, but I can kind of say I was naive.

Chelsea (04:54)
Somewhere in there.

Marissa Zwetow (05:07)
as to what it was, but I also got thrown a lot of curveballs as I know you did too. So I suppose there are...

Chelsea (05:15)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (05:19)
Yeah, I think I can say this. I suppose there are kind of picture perfect. I don't mean that any parent has it easy, but you know, there are there are the birth was beautiful and the baby so easy. I know that does exist and that certainly would have helped. And it's still hard. So I guess to sum up, I was blindsided. I was absolutely blindsided by my experience of it.

Chelsea (05:38)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (05:42)
And it was confusing. I didn't have the birth experience I wanted. It's not so much my story, but it's relevant. And then I didn't have the bond that I had. I didn't even know it was normal and common not to have that bond. I had seen all the movies and all the commercials, right? That when you see your baby for the first time and the mom is crying.

Chelsea (06:08)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (06:08)
And

I felt numb, shocked, underwhelmed for a long time. And then right out of the gate, she had this scream that you could hear across the football field. And a lot of people commented, even the pediatrician who had been in practice for like 35 years, like, whoa.

Chelsea (06:12)
Yes.

You

Marissa Zwetow (06:29)
So that was that

was a bit jarring that she's screaming. And then from there, it was just one hurdle after another. Some I know this is so cliche, but I have I have forgotten some of it. But I but I I'll never forget that it was horrendous. I'm trying to breastfeed and learning all of that. The latch wasn't going great.

Chelsea (06:47)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (06:53)
I soon learned that she, I wasn't producing enough milk, she wasn't gaining enough weight. This is such a common thing that happens. And I'm just, I think probably mostly because I didn't have that bond, I'm just like, what is happening? Like, this is awful. Like this is awful.

Chelsea (07:09)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (07:11)
And I feel so trapped and so stuck and it just feels like it just keeps snowballing. She that that scream that I mentioned just kept going. She had acid reflux, which just translates into colic and trying to soothe a crying baby. And and I this might sound silly, but it was like.

Chelsea (07:24)
Mmm.

Marissa Zwetow (07:34)
The overwhelm of everything, including like the car seat or the stroller. Like I think I was about ready to lose it when it's like, how does this contraption unfold and come back together? It's such a small thing, right? But

Chelsea (07:50)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (07:51)
I just remember feeling like nothing is easy. Like I could cry right now like nothing. Like why can't just one thing and looking back maybe there was one or two things but that it it didn't matter because it was masked by soothing the crying baby and trying to breastfeed and is she gaining enough weight and how do I work this damn stroller or car seat? And there was zero joy. Just zero joy.

Chelsea (08:12)
Yes!

Marissa Zwetow (08:18)
And the anxiety that I felt really pretty quickly turned to despair. Just absolute despair. Like this is my life and it's like you could just see the soul and life just begin to suck out of me.

But what began to happen is I started to feel confused. And I know listeners are like, okay, okay, this is another, not that they're bored, okay, I know this story. This is postpartum depression. But this takes a turn. It really takes a turn because...

something isn't quite right. And I'm already a licensed mental health professional. You would think that I would just be like, okay, you know, I don't know. I don't know what my expectations were of myself or maybe, maybe. But what initially,

Chelsea (09:05)
like self-diagnosed, be like, ⁓ I know exactly. Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (09:12)
I mentioned despair and it's almost like I want to separate that feeling from like this clinical depression because I wasn't depressed yet. But it's almost like I could I could logically and clearly say this is awful. But I'm not depressed. And that's a that's distinction that's important. It's really important to my story. And I think it's important for a lot of moms because I feel like we just want to be so

quick to diagnose and to say well that's the that's the onset of postpartum depression. And I remember going to the six-week OB-GYN appointment and I'm reading this questionnaire which I am NOT a fan of. So okay love that. I can't even remember the name of it. Yes.

Chelsea (09:55)
neither am I. Yeah. Yeah. It's the Edinburgh scale. Edinburgh scale.

Yes.

Marissa Zwetow (10:03)
Yes,

awful, awful, awful. I appreciate the effort and the sensitivity to, you know, postpartum mood disorders, but I wish the questions were more relatable.

Chelsea (10:06)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Marissa Zwetow (10:20)
I just wanted to throw that survey across the check it across the office. And I lied. I lied on every question because I just had no interest in talking about this. really, I really was hoping it was temporary. I was so desperately hoping it was temporary, but it didn't it got worse. But the but if I were I'm sure we all have a different take on if we could rewrite that survey or questionnaire. But it's like I was looking for something

Chelsea (10:37)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (10:49)
to

really, really validate me. Like, are you secretly wondering why anyone would ever have a baby? know, mostly, somewhat, a little bit, not at all, or I think everyone would love this question. Is this way harder than you thought? Yes. So...

Chelsea (10:55)
Yeah!

Yeah. yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (11:10)
Okay, so that there's that. But what I'm trying to get at is this confusion. And I do eventually like I resigned that this is postpartum depression. And I start researching and reading everything I can get my hands on. And I and I'm reading books. And I kept waiting for the chapter that says, this is really hard. And I never found that chapter.

Chelsea (11:30)
Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Marissa Zwetow (11:33)
Like I

get that these professionals are talking about, look, there's variables and there's sleep deprivation and there's all these things. But it was still like, you have this mental illness and treatment's available and it's not your fault. And I can appreciate that, but I still kept waiting for, and it's hard. Why isn't anyone talking about that?

Chelsea (11:56)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (11:57)
So

fast forward, I'm still resigned to postpartum depression, right? That's kind of my tagline or party line, you know, okay, I'm willing to go there, I have postpartum depression, I'm a clinician, I wanna learn more about this, but something is still gnawing at me. And I go to a training, there's actually a couple of moments that were like huge light bulb moments.

And I go to this training and the professional who is an expert in perinatal mood disorders is going over the causes, you the usual causes I'd always heard.

hormonal drastic hormonal changes, history of depression or anxiety, lack of support, maybe some other changes happening and I don't hear again, I don't hear what I'm looking for. So I raise my hand and I say, well, what about a mom who doesn't enjoy it and isn't liking it because of how overwhelming and challenging it is and she says to me, that sounds pathological.

I could, I was like, what did she just say?

Chelsea (13:01)
I know listeners you can't see my face, but I just was like what what? What?

Marissa Zwetow (13:08)
clinician I should even know what that meant.

you know, to me it sounded like a serial killer. I was kind of in shock, you know. So here's this professional that like not only can she not validate me, like she's going off, off this like way off the deep end there. So that left an impression. And I really wasn't as offended as I should be. But it really, it really got me thinking, kept me, I kept thinking, I kept thinking. And then I had

Chelsea (13:30)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (13:36)
another professional who was absolutely on my side. And she actually ended up being a collaborator on a book that I wrote. And she said, I wonder if you actually had postpartum depression. And I'm kind of looking at her kind of cross-eyed. She said, I know that's a funny question. But that question was so incredibly helpful. So here's my main point. And what I'm just passionate about is that I believe that what happened to me and what happens to a lot of parents,

Chelsea (13:56)
You

Marissa Zwetow (14:03)
I want to include dads and say parents, but I do tend to say moms a lot and focus on moms, but I definitely want to be inclusive. But what I think happens to a lot of them is that because it's so challenging, like I just stand firmly by that. I'm not saying it is for all parents, but I think for a lot of parents postpartum, especially postpartum, but you know, parenthood is incredibly challenging. And I think it can cause depression and I don't hear it talked about.

about

like that and, and.

That's my everything. And I think if I'd had that validation, I think if I'd had a social media following, not following for me, but like I had followed something or had professionals that just said, no wonder you're struggling. No wonder you're having a hard time. Look at all these things that you are having to deal with. Let's get ahead of it so that you don't develop depression. Or if I had already developed depression, fine. We're still gonna address

it but how I got there matters and and when I'm hearing about the onset of postpartum depression it infuriates me because I did not have an onset of a mental illness and and I I know I'm talking so fast I don't mean to I don't mean to add to the stigma

Chelsea (15:06)
Mm-hmm.

Marissa Zwetow (15:22)
of mental illness, especially as a clinician. don't, but it's just so crystal clear what I went through, that there was a lack of validation and normalization of how hard it is and that it can actually cause depression, which is very different than saying, you're not bonded and you're unhappy and you're not enjoying this. You must have postpartum depression. And I'm like, that's such bullshit. Sorry, I don't know if I can swear. Okay.

Chelsea (15:43)
Mmm.

So you're, you're flipp- yeah, absolutely. We have an explicit

warning. You're like, you're sort of flipping the script a little bit. And so rather than postpartum depression being the cause, it is the result of the circumstances.

Marissa Zwetow (15:53)
Yes!

Yes,

it's the reverse. It's the,

Chelsea (16:04)
Yeah. And, and

I totally am also, reiterating that you are validating that both are true for some people. Yes. Yes. So for, for a lot of people, like when we say one in five, one in five birthing people develop a perinatal mood and anxiety disorder that can come from previous history of mental health, that can come from hormonal imbalance that can come from, but

Marissa Zwetow (16:14)
Yes, of course, of course.

Yes.

Chelsea (16:31)
Um, and I'm super interested to talk to you more about this. Um, there is a shift starting to happen in the sort of mom culture where we are talking more about burnout and we are talking about mental load and we are talking about how hard it is and how that can cause depression that can

Marissa Zwetow (16:48)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Chelsea (16:59)
be a cause

for anxiety. you're absolutely right. So listeners who are familiar with the show know that I don't do a lot of research on my guests, but I have all of my guests fill out a little like, tell me about yourself. And when I read that you had said, I don't think I had postpartum depression. I think I developed depression. I was like,

Marissa Zwetow (17:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (17:27)
That's really interesting. Like it was for me, it was just like when your friend asked you, it was like, that's a new, that's a new take and one that I'd really love to, to talk about. But what also resonated so many of the things that you said are things that all of my guests say and, and things that we're seeing on social media. I'm saying that like, I did not.

Marissa Zwetow (17:35)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Chelsea (17:55)
have that magical golden hour where they put the baby on my chest and the rainbows flew over my head and I didn't have that at all. That would have been wonderful. I didn't have that with either of my kids. And to be like breastfeeding is hard and it is not something that comes naturally to everyone and being so mad at the damn car seat. Like how does the car seat

Marissa Zwetow (17:58)
Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (18:23)
click into this stroller and why is it not happening? Like,

Marissa Zwetow (18:24)
Right.

Chelsea (18:28)
all of it is so relatable. So I am I'm really, I'm curious, especially like you said, you're a mental health clinician, like, you thought like, I should have figured this out. Like, I don't know, I don't know. Why is nobody talking about how hard it is? Like, let's, let's dig into that a little bit. You mentioned it so briefly, like the shame.

Marissa Zwetow (18:31)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, ⁓ my gosh.

Chelsea (18:50)
What was that feeling like when you're going through

everything and hating it, sounds like. What did that sort of do to your thoughts on yourself, your self-esteem, your vision of yourself as a parent, as a person, as a partner? What was that like?

Marissa Zwetow (18:56)
Yeah, yeah.

self-esteem. Yeah. Yeah.

It was awful.

Yeah, yeah. Excellent question for sure. Yeah, I didn't have a name for what I was going through, which is what my mission is and what I'm trying to do. And I really felt like I was faced with two options. I have this mental illness.

Which is fine, but it didn't, it wasn't clicking. Like, it didn't make sense. Yeah. Or, what's my other option? I'm a monster, right? Like that's it. Which again, is why I'm so passionate. We need more options. We need way more options than the two. I hope it doesn't...

Chelsea (19:30)
It didn't resonate with you. Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (19:47)
I hope it can come out clear where I don't want to stigmatize these very valuable diagnoses, especially in the perinatal period, but we need more options. So yeah, I did. I wish I had...

Chelsea (20:00)
Mm-hmm.

Marissa Zwetow (20:04)
more things to follow. was late to the social media game. I didn't even have a Facebook page. This was 13 years or sorry, 11 years ago. I wasn't really into social media and I see now the value of social media in hearing from other moms, other stories and I agree with you. I think there is trends in validating parenthood. Even regret. There's I think on Reddit and even on Facebook forums where you can anonymously

share. It's not that I know almost all of them say I love my kids and I regret I regret it. But yeah, I didn't just to answer your question. I didn't I didn't have any of that and I and I felt I first I thought it was just embarrassment.

Chelsea (20:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (20:51)
before having the postpartum depression, but now it's like, my gosh, I didn't have any of that validation or normalization as to what I was going through. And I was cautious with who I shared this with, right? Because I think that, I think, majority

Chelsea (21:04)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (21:13)
are happy and not to say that they're not tired and overwhelmed but happy to enter into parenthood and they obviously want to keep doing it because we see these large families so it's a little bit it's you know what it was it was an identity crisis not just for society like where do i fit in with society but also my own expectations because

Chelsea (21:24)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (21:37)
As said, I wanted a family. I thought two or three. Two or three kids. That'll be great. And because I'm older, I'll have them back to back like I'm knocking out college courses. I have one. I will say that right now. I have one. I have one for a reason because it's not like knocking out college courses.

So I had an identity crisis in addition to shame and embarrassment. I know I keep saying this, but this is just why I'm passionate to help remove that shame. even, you know, I use the word stigma attaching to mental illness, but there's a huge stigma of if you don't like parenthood, you're going to get kicked out of the tribe.

Chelsea (22:18)
Yeah. Yeah. yes, again, reiterating, I think the shift is starting to happen. I think we're starting to see it. It's kind of in its infancy. And those of us that are being louder about it have to kind of be brave because you will get the people that are like, you chose to have your children and how could you say this? And how could you think that? And there are still lot.

Marissa Zwetow (22:33)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (22:42)
of people on social media pushing the narrative that this is beautiful and I didn't know who I was before I was a mom and like yeah right like but right and we can laugh about it but the reason we're laughing about it is because like that's great for you that's great for you that was not my experience and my experience is just as valid as your experience and we have to be able to talk about both there has to be room

Marissa Zwetow (22:48)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure.

Yeah.

Chelsea (23:10)
in the conversation for all experiences. So I think it's starting to happen and I really hope it continues to happen. Because just like you said, and I say this all the time, this is not about me, but when something resonates, like I did have postpartum depression with my first I remember the day

Marissa Zwetow (23:17)
I do too. Yeah.

Chelsea (23:33)
that I told my husband. I was like, I regret that we did this. And I remember his reaction and I remember how hard it was to say that. So I don't think it's as uncommon as people think. To that point, who did you trust with those feelings? Who were you able to talk to?

Marissa Zwetow (23:47)
yeah.

Yeah, that's,

my gosh. I think it was, think it was as I was healing and as I was gaining confidence kind of processing out loud.

in a safe place. You know, so when I was in this training, it was a really small training, small intimate training, and I had gotten that response of that sounds pathological. When we had gotten out to dinner with the there's maybe five or six of us, someone said, What did you think when she said that? You know, it her way, it's probably her way of saying like, that was an asinine comment that she made. I'm like, like, yeah.

Chelsea (24:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (24:34)
You know, another comment that got made is, this is another training and I was still grappling with whether or not to have another because my husband wanted another and that was so hard. But one of the other clinicians, because I'm at a training, she had said, maybe you could adopt. I thought, wow. So she thinks, which again, this is common if we look at depression, postpartum depression from a clinical biological

I know, you know, I know it's it's all the things but she was thinking we can bypass it and I'm looking at her going I'm going like in a way her question helped me all these all these comments even though they were a bit offensive they all helped me right because I could see like there's something missing from this conversation I'm like, wait a minute. You don't hear what I'm saying I'm telling you I don't find this baby thing particularly baby maybe

Chelsea (25:07)
Yeah.

Right.

Hahaha

Yes.

Marissa Zwetow (25:31)
and toddler stage, I don't find it particularly enjoyable. So how can I bypass it through adoption?

Chelsea (25:38)
Right, let's skip

ahead and just hand me the baby. All of those challenges are still gonna be there.

Marissa Zwetow (25:42)
Yeah, Henry, I guess.

Yeah. But I think to answer your question, I didn't feel...

It's like, I think when I started opening up about it, there was maybe a period of time where it was exploratory, curious, and her question, I mean, yeah, she didn't quite get me, but again, it was helpful. like my wheels, you know, my wheels are always turning, always turning, always turning, like, what is this? And then finally, when I landed on it, I'm like, I know what it is. I don't like this thing, and I'm allowed to say that, and I know I'm not alone, so let's begin.

Chelsea (26:15)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (26:21)
and this mission to start talking about postpartum depression in a very different way that I didn't think was being talked about.

Chelsea (26:30)
Yeah. So how did you approach that? Like, where was the shift?

Marissa Zwetow (26:36)
Yeah, so the clinician who ended up being a collaborator on my book, she's a professional. Her name is Shoshana Bennett and

she's written some books on postpartum depression and her and I started collaborating and I knew I wanted to write a book. It's my brand, Postpartum Happiness, What to Do When You Love the Kids But Hate the Job. And even that, even that I'm actually looking to rebrand. I want it really more in your face. Something like it's not you. Motherhood is really effing hard.

Chelsea (26:57)
Mm-hmm.

Marissa Zwetow (27:06)
And it will relate to those who need it and it won't relate to those who don't. It might piss people off and that's okay. something around like how the hype of motherhood like may have failed you. So my book just was so much fun. So much fun to write and like I said I want to rebrand it. And then I started specializing myself in perinatal mood disorders and I could see in my own clients like

Chelsea (27:20)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (27:35)
yeah, I already knew that but it just clarified, I'm not alone, I'm not alone. And I could validate them, I could validate them the way I needed to be validated and saying, yeah, given everything you're going through, I get why you're not happy right now. And I want to be clear too, it's not that I shun away from...

Chelsea (27:40)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (27:53)
mental health treatment, absolutely talk about antidepressants. I should have gotten on one. didn't. just, I think it was so because I felt so invalidated. I think it was hard, harder. Whereas someone, a really smart clinician would have said, look, I get how you got here. And maybe it's not typical for postpartum depression, but you are depressed. So let's get you, you know, the help and treatment that you need. And I can do that now with my clients.

Chelsea (28:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (28:23)
So it might sound like I contradict myself. It's more like clarifying how postpartum depression can happen, like I said, versus the onset. And I think we can prevent it, which I'm not, I mean...

Chelsea (28:34)
Mm-hmm.

Marissa Zwetow (28:40)
I think the way it's written now, narrative around postpartum depression, it's harder to prevent. Unless you have a history, but I think a lot of parents don't have that history. I don't know. I don't know all the statistics.

Chelsea (28:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. think so what I'm getting, I'm definitely not getting that you're like invalidating perinatal moon, like PMADS. Like I'm not getting that narrative at all. No, I think what I'm getting, well, through your lived experience and through your very much warranted need to be validated, you are now, like you said, incredibly passionate about sharing that because you're not alone.

Marissa Zwetow (29:02)
Yeah, no, no. Yeah. Good. Good.

Chelsea (29:21)
You're not alone. And recognizing too that like, however you get to the point that you're at, whether it be hormonal, whether it be predisposition, whether it be that this is really not what you expected, you are worthy and deserving of help and you are worthy and deserving of validation and support. That kind of...

Marissa Zwetow (29:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

right.

Chelsea (29:48)
translates to my next question, is, I kind of anticipate the answer to this, but did you have, so we're all sort of fed the story that you become a mother and you have this village. We all hear about the village. We all hear about it. Did you have support? Did you have that village throughout those early days?

Marissa Zwetow (30:13)
Yeah, that's a great question. Yes and no. If I could go back in time, I would have hired a nanny or someone to come and that's what I should have had. My mom was working and out of state. She came for a little bit. My husband was great, but I just, I was...

in this whirlwind and in despair. I think too, as much as I can talk about my disdain for being responsible for this newborn that I'm not connected to that's crying, I also felt this enormous sense of responsibility.

It's kind of, it's weird, right? Like, like on the one hand, I want to run away, but I can't. So I'm here and I'm going to be this. It's not that I wanted to be an attentive mother. It's that I, maybe it's that type a personality. Like I, like I said, I didn't, I didn't know as a controlling person until I became a parent. So I became controlling too. And my husband couldn't do it fast enough or right enough. I wish I leaned into him more.

Chelsea (31:14)
Mmm.

Marissa Zwetow (31:17)
And I talked to my clients about that, to work through that. But no, didn't have a ton of support. But that's not to say it wasn't available. We should have hired somebody, bottom line.

Chelsea (31:28)
Yeah, well, and again, I hate cliches, like Hindsight's 2020, like if you could go back and change it, if I could go back and change it, oh my gosh, there's a million things I would do different. But I think the reason I ask that question too is it tells me a little bit more about, and like you said, like that type A like overachiever, like was there a lack of a village, which nine times out of 10 there is.

Marissa Zwetow (31:34)
Yeah, yeah. Right, yeah.

⁓ gosh,

yeah.

Chelsea (31:57)
Or

not or, and were you also of the mindset of like, I'm supposed to be doing this. Yeah. I'm supposed to do this and I'm supposed to like it. And I don't. Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (32:03)
yeah, 100%.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never

questioned it. I never questioned it. I just it was just blissfully being pregnant close to my due date. Like, like I remember seeing a poster in my OBGYN office of the importance of skin to skin contact, right? It's like a mom and the bare chest. They're both bare chested, right? And I'm like, that's great. That's going to be me and my baby all the time. Like, like I said, kind of naive. But

Chelsea (32:31)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (32:35)
Yeah, I think the naivety is because we don't have enough out there preparing moms because we don't want to be the negative Nancy and all of that. But as you said, is there's more maybe social trends saying it can be great. We hope it's great and it might not. And let's talk about it.

Chelsea (32:57)
Yeah,

yes. And, and I think also what's great about the people that are talking about it is I'm going to use we, I'll say we, cause I'm talking about it too. but like we're not out to discredit everybody else or invalidate anybody else's experience. We just want to be heard too. Just like you, just like you were like, can someone just say this is really freaking hard?

Marissa Zwetow (33:24)
Yeah.

Chelsea (33:25)
Can someone please

just say that? So yeah, There's almost a sense of pride in being able to say, this fucking sucks, but I'm doing it. But I'm doing it, and I love my child. But why did nobody tell me how hard this is?

Marissa Zwetow (33:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah... Yeah...

Chelsea (33:51)
Yeah.

And I'm curious too, like, and like you said, like you, you wanted to have children, you this was a plan and like, I have worked with children my entire teen and adult life, like, right? Like I, I was like, this is going to be easy. I know I worked with, I was an infant teacher for years. I was like, I know how to do all the things. And I still was like,

Marissa Zwetow (34:03)
Wow.

Wow.

Ha ha.

Chelsea (34:17)
What

the hell is going on here? Why did nobody talk about this? Like the screaming that you're talking about, like why won't you stop screaming? So I don't even know where I was going with that. It's just, it's so relatable. It's so very relatable. And like I said before, like there needs to be space in the conversation for all experiences.

Marissa Zwetow (34:23)
Yeah, yeah. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (34:41)
So moving through that, and I loved seeing you light up like when you talked about writing your book and how excited you are to, or how excited you were to get your story out there so that others could connect with you. Like when or how?

Did things start to evolve for you? And your relationship to your daughter, when did that start to evolve? Or is it still evolving?

Marissa Zwetow (35:14)
Like my role as a parent, you mean? Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say I lost myself in motherhood. Like you mentioned, know, self-esteem and confidence and...

Chelsea (35:17)
Yeah. Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (35:28)
So my confidence came back. I think I could confidently say this parenting is hard and it's not my favorite. I certainly don't love it enough to do it again. And I'm learning to not control. My daughter might say otherwise. She's like pre-teen, but learning. I'm trying to think what to hone in on.

Chelsea (35:41)
You

Marissa Zwetow (35:48)
I think I can say like I don't love being a mom per se. I mean, it's definitely way easier than it used to be. But I think it's, I've just eased into it. And like I said, you know, when you kind of said, you know, what were your interests before and after, or who are you now before and after?

I'm so grateful that yes, I lost myself, but I definitely regained myself. And now I have just a sense of purpose that I would have never had, you know, without going through all this. So it's evolved in many ways, for sure. But I'm not someone that's going to say this is kind of something I'm not a big fan of, too. I think that there's an undertone with

Chelsea (36:21)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (36:32)
the tagline with postpartum depression that, you know, it's not your fault and with treatment you can get better. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I think there's this hope like, okay, once I get better, I'm gonna love it. And you might.

Chelsea (36:46)
Mmm.

Marissa Zwetow (36:49)
like my healing wasn't like, now I'm part of society and I love it. Like no, I learned to love myself despite not loving it. And my new identity, right? My new identity is, yeah, I thought I'd love being a mom and I realized I don't. I have one child. What is it like for our family to have one child and to recreate my identity?

Chelsea (36:50)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (37:16)
knowing that I still love my career and being an entrepreneur and being someone that has this mission now, which is very separate from my role of being a mom. Yeah, anyways.

Chelsea (37:25)
Yeah. No, it's,

it, it's, so I'm, I'm curious if this will, if this will resonate with you. I'm using resonate a lot. I just said every time, like I do an episode, I pick this like one word unknowingly and I use it a lot. but I wonder if this will resonate with you. Like I was that way. I have two children, but I was a one and done. I said like, never doing this again. I'm never doing this again. This is not what I expected. And then I ultimately.

did, but I used to say, I don't like being a mom, but I love being my kid's mom.

Marissa Zwetow (37:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (38:02)
Like I don't like the job, but I'm proud to be the mother of my child. Like, does that make sense?

Marissa Zwetow (38:04)
Yeah.

Yeah,

absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I can relate to that. Yeah, and you're getting me thinking because I think it's always been, you know, I love my kid, but I don't love being a mom. But you're right. Yeah, it is being her mom, for sure. It's still, I still don't like feeling the sense of responsibility.

Chelsea (38:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't either.

No, I don't either. And I did it again, but like intentionally. I started over when, when, um, my kids are seven years apart. So I'm cuckoo bananas, but, yeah, no, I, I get that. get that feeling and, that definitely sits with me. I can relate to that. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Um, I'm curious.

Marissa Zwetow (38:36)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (39:02)
So you had said, your daughter 11? Is she 10? She's 11. Okay. And like you said, like it's definitely easier now than what it was. Another thing that's being passed around right now is that like nothing ever stays the same in parenting and in life. So like, you're just going to find new challenges and what's challenging now isn't going to be challenging.

Marissa Zwetow (39:05)
Yeah, yeah, 11, yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea (39:28)
five years from now, 10 years from now. My oldest is nine and we are, whoa. So that nine, 10, 11, those nine, 10, 11, 12 year olds, they're a different, a different breed than when I was nine, 10, 11, I was listening to Britney Spears and singing into my hair brush. And that is not these nine, 10, 11, 12 year olds. Like they're made of something different.

Marissa Zwetow (39:30)
Yeah.

you

Hahaha

No. Yeah.

Chelsea (39:58)
So what I think I'm getting at is like reiterating hearing you again say like, yeah, this is still challenging, but, you feel empowered in yourself where you didn't when she was tiny.

Marissa Zwetow (40:04)
Yeah.

gosh, yeah, I didn't, lost so much freedom. And the payoff just wasn't there, probably because I didn't have that bond. It's like, this blows, who would sign up for this? Where, you know, whereas now, yeah, she's a bit of a pill and whatnot, but she can wipe her own butt, you know?

Chelsea (40:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yes. Right. The challenges are different and you can handle them differently. You're at a different stage in your life and you, you, ⁓ but yeah, it just makes me think of the Adam Sandler. What was that movie? Was it Big Daddy? I wiped my own ass. Yes. Great. Thank you. ⁓ but yeah, that, but then that comes with

Marissa Zwetow (40:41)
Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Chelsea (40:57)
preteen hormones and that comes with mom, you're the worst and mommy hate you and why are you, do I have to do everything you tell me to do? so,

Marissa Zwetow (40:59)
gosh, yeah, yeah.

Chelsea (41:08)
As you were navigating this, as you were figuring this out, as you were looking for that validation and then coming to find like, no, this is common and I'm not alone. In that, what were some ways that you started to find yourself again? Like we often hear the words self-care and we hear coping skills and we...

Marissa Zwetow (41:28)
yeah, yeah.

Chelsea (41:29)
And coping skills are incredibly important. Self-care kind of irks me because the things that people say are self-care, basic needs and...

Marissa Zwetow (41:36)
basics

needs officers like a shower.

Chelsea (41:39)
Like that's

not self care. That's basic need. There's a commercial right now for all free and clear. And it's a woman saying like, all free and clear is part of my self care regimen. And I'm like, laundry is not self care. So that's a tangent, but what were some of the ways that you were able to start finding yourself again?

Marissa Zwetow (41:53)
No, no. Yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah, it was honestly it was taking personal responsibility for my happiness. And because I felt like I had lost myself and lost so many of these freedoms, I could slowly through my own awareness and willingness, integrate those things back in, you know, of course, life is going to look different. It's not going to be exactly the same, you know, maybe

Maybe we're not ready to do the weekend getaway that we used to do, but can we do a morning together and have a babysitter or whatever it may be? Leaning into my husband a lot more. I just felt protective of him. I knew he was tired. But what I say to my clients, it's like that you're drowning and you're looking up and you know, wondering how much water is in his.

cup, his cup and you're drowning. Like let's, you know, let's really get you above water and trust that he's okay. Most men are singular focus. Yes, they might be tired, but they just go in and they get it done. Whereas we're emotional. And so I started leaning into him more and trusting he's got this. He's got this. It's fine. Nothing bad happened.

Chelsea (42:49)
Yeah. Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (43:11)
And you know, we kind of touched on this as my daughter got older. Thank God there is this for most, I know not for everyone, but this natural progression of they get more independent, they get easier, they don't have as many needs, we don't need to worry as much. And so that did happen. Yes, new challenges arise, but they never compared to newborn baby stuff.

Chelsea (43:39)
Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (43:39)
And for me, wrestling with whether or not to have another was really important to honor myself. remember reading somewhere.

I'm sure it was perinatal mood disorder related, but it was like a mom said, if I have another, those two children will have half of a mom versus the one I have now having a whole mom. that's, that just really stuck with me. so, just honoring me and

you know, it's, it's everyone like it's different, you know, it's and I'm, I'm standing with the parents that decide not to have children. I stand with them like, or, you know, I probably don't have as much to, you know, the, the, the parents that decided to have eight children, I probably wouldn't have as much in common, but I respect their choice. But it, like you said, it is my family, my choice period, right? You know, whatever fits for you and your family.

Chelsea (44:15)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yes. Yes.

Marissa Zwetow (44:33)
But that was important. That was an important piece for my healing to recognize. And it was hard. My husband wanted more. I mean, it was really hard. But ultimately, I knew he'd want me to be happy and thrive instead of sinking just because we checked off the box that said, okay, we had another.

Chelsea (44:40)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's amazing that that and that does that speaks to the importance of communication and your relationship. And yeah. And but yes, absolutely. Like you deserve your happiness and you deserve to feel like a whole person. I had another guest say something like adding

Marissa Zwetow (45:00)
Yeah.

Chelsea (45:14)
a child into the mix is never gonna solve anything. It's not gonna, it's not gonna solve anything. so it doesn't mean like if you want a child, like don't have a kid cause it's good. It doesn't mean having a kid is going to mess everything up. It just means adding a child is not going to fix problems that are, or, or struggles that are already existing. ⁓ but yeah, I

Marissa Zwetow (45:17)
you

No.

Right. Yeah.

Chelsea (45:39)
I don't know, I love seeing your passion and hearing your passion because it is validating. It's so important for new parents to hear that they're not alone, that this is really freaking hard. The older generations are trying to tell us like, we didn't have all the things, we didn't have tablets and we didn't have it. Like, what are you complaining about?

Marissa Zwetow (45:51)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea (46:02)
Mama complain. Okay. You can complain to me. It sounds like you can complain to Marissa. Like it's okay. It's okay to say that it's hard. so I think this is going to be really important for a lot of people to hear. this feels like my, my, I always call it my big sigh moment. Like, huh, like we got that off our chest.

Marissa Zwetow (46:05)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Chelsea (46:27)
I usually, I have like one of two questions that I ask at end of an episode and I like to take the whole episode to think about it. And I think I've decided on yours. You actually touched on it a couple of times.

Marissa Zwetow (46:34)
Thank

Okay.

Chelsea (46:41)
But if you could go back in time, you cannot tell yourself what you're going to experience. can't, it's not like you can say like, hey, this is going to be hard. So learn how to do this, but you can instill something within yourself. So it could be like an attribute or it could be just like something to hold onto a word, a phrase, anything.

What would you instill within yourself?

Marissa Zwetow (47:06)
⁓ yeah,

I know it. know it. It'd be a chutzpah. So the reason, the reason I say that is because I've, I have encountered a couple moms who experienced what I experienced without the shame and the despair. They, they just somehow knew themselves so well and they said,

Chelsea (47:11)
Putzfa, I love it!

Marissa Zwetow (47:30)
Like one mom was like, I get exactly what you're saying. Like she didn't bond and, but she just, she wasn't falling apart.

she just she even said, you know, I talked to my baby and I said, Look, I don't get this thing. I'm going to protect you. I would I would lay my life on the line for you. But you got to give me some time. She's saying this to the baby, right? You got to give me some time because I don't get this mother thing. And and she'd even said, you know, I would travel and be very active. And now I'm just planted in the sofa breastfeeding this baby. You're like her life had completely changed, but she just didn't have

Chelsea (47:52)
Yeah!

Marissa Zwetow (48:08)
the sadness that I had or the depression or even feeling bad about herself. So it would, I don't know why I came up with Hootsvah, but I don't, you know, I know I'd say Yiddish word. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah.

Chelsea (48:19)
it makes perfect sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. Because, because it's that, it's

that like I'm envisioning just like that mom you're describing, just like, this is, this is what it is kid. Like, hey, this sucks. You're... Yeah. Right? Like this is okay. Well, guess this is what we're doing. So... Yeah.

Marissa Zwetow (48:32)
Yeah.

Yeah, this sucks, but I'm okay and we'll get there and yeah.

Yeah. Like it didn't shake her. It didn't shake her. You

know, I'm sure she wasn't thrilled, but it didn't disrupt it. Well, it disrupted, it just didn't shake her the way it did.

Chelsea (48:53)
I was gonna say, I'm curious

if it did shake her and she didn't, like if it shook her on some level, but maybe it didn't. Maybe it didn't.

Marissa Zwetow (49:00)
level but but

yeah maybe it didn't true yeah yeah

Chelsea (49:04)
Yeah, we'll never know.

Marissa, this has been such a refreshing conversation. It is so nice to be able to talk about the hard and to talk about it in a real way. And I also really like viewing postpartum mental health through a different lens and having it be a result rather than the cause.

Marissa Zwetow (49:18)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Chelsea (49:31)
yeah, but it's it. that knows me, I just, I'm a love, I love to learn and I love to look at every angle and I love to look at every perspective. So that's a perspective I hadn't explored and it's really interesting to me. Um, yeah, well, yeah, clearly.

Marissa Zwetow (49:41)
Yeah, it is. Yeah, I think it is too.

Chelsea (49:48)
Where can my listeners find you so they can find your book and they can they can find you talking about what you're passionate about?

Marissa Zwetow (49:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep. So my my brand is postpartum happiness. So at postpartum happiness is like TikTok and Facebook and Instagram website is postpartum happiness dot com. There's the book and all kinds of other resources and phone number, email, all that's right there.

Chelsea (50:14)
And all of your socials and your website will be linked in the show notes, so listeners, check the show notes for sure. But Marissa, thank you. This was very refreshing and I appreciate you taking the time to chat.

Marissa Zwetow (50:27)
my gosh.

Thank you so much. My pleasure.

Chelsea Myers (50:30)
Marissa, thank you for sharing your story and for helping to end the cycle of shame that so many new parents face when the reality of parenting isn't what they expected. This is hard and it's okay to talk about it. Listeners, make sure you check the show notes to find out how to get a copy of Marissa's book and to follow along as she advocates for all moms to share their experiences.

You can keep up with us on Quiet Connection by following us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at Quiet Connection Podcast. You can help our community grow by leaving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify and consider sharing our episodes on social media. To share your personal journey, you can contact us through our website at quietconnectionpodcast.com or by email at quietconnection.

Join us next time when another story is told and you realize you are not alone. I see you.