Ann P: Postpartum Growth and Grace

When Ann became a mother, she had a clear vision: warm cookies after school, laughter, and a picture-perfect family life. But when her daughter arrived early and needed a NICU stay, that dream collided with anxiety, depression, and a world she didn’t feel prepared for. 

Ann shares how she learned to give herself grace, ask for help, and rebuild her sense of self through what she calls “five-minute magic.” With warmth, humor, and Hallmark-movie analogies, Ann reminds us that healing doesn’t happen instantly, but it does happen. 

 Key Takeaways

• You don’t know what you don’t know. Give yourself permission to learn, ask for help, and be human.
• Self-care doesn’t need to be complicated—try “five-minute magic,” small daily habits that open up joy.
• Asking for help is a strength, not a weakness.
• The “can’t” mindset can shift to “how can I?”—a lesson Ann learned from her grandfather and now passes down.
• Mental health practices ripple through generations. When caregivers care for themselves, families thrive.
• Hope isn’t instant, but it’s always possible.

Links:

• Ann's Website: https://annsplan.com/
• Ann's Linkden: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ann-pells-10397615/

Transcript

Chelsea Myers (01:13)
Hello! Today I'm here with Ann! Ann, how are you?

Ann Pells (01:18)
I'm really good. Thank you, Chelsea. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (01:20)
Yeah,

I know you have a big smile this morning. You've got the energy that I need in my life right now. So I'm really excited to be able to chat with you today. I will dive right in. I would love it if you could introduce yourself to my listeners and let us know who you were before you were a parent.

Ann Pells (01:24)
you

Thank

you know, before I was a parent, I've always loved reading books and eating chocolate. that's, I'm, I have always loved things that make us laugh, things that make us connect with people, always been really outgoing and cheerful. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (01:51)
Oooh!

Ann Pells (02:04)
And then we had anxiety and depression and it totally flipped my lid about a lot of things. Was not expecting it kind of blindsided and just anyway, so.

That was my first journey into motherhood and in those years between like 18 and 25 and now we're 25 years beyond that and I'm watching my children with everything that's happened to me hopefully navigate better and faster than I did all of that that's happening right and I think it's just tricky for families and people in general to navigate everything and try to figure out which end is up sometimes because sometimes

things

just hit us out of the blue that we didn't plan on. But anyway, so I still like those things. Great. My husband calls it, and you're this the cheesy Hallmark endings. I like happy endings. I like things to work out. And in the middle, there's a mess. And it's always the mess. It's kind of like, okay, nevermind. We are sure we want to do the mess. But anyway, so that's me in a nutshell books, movies.

Chelsea Myers (02:58)
What's wrong with that?

Ann Pells (03:12)
not real coordinated physically for sports and things, but love watching it if my kids are involved or we're trying to do something as a family. Yeah, love it.

Chelsea Myers (03:23)
I love that. Books and chocolate, think are a lot of our love languages like that. Put me with a good book and some chocolate, maybe some trail mix with chocolate and you know, add a little protein in there. No, just add some a little bit of protein for me. But yeah, oh, I love it. I love it so much. And you already took us right into where we're headed today. gonna talk about

Ann Pells (03:26)
Thank

There you go. Then we need to be a little more healthy. Let's throw the protein in there. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Chelsea Myers (03:52)
your journey to and through parenting. And one of the questions that I like to ask all of my guests is, did you always see yourself as a parent? Did you always envision that for your life?

Ann Pells (04:09)
Yeah, I remember being a little four and five year old girl and just, you know, drawing the pictures of the princess and the happily ever after house and the ⁓ usually looked like a huge castle at the time or, know. So I think I've always thought that would be my main role in life. But then I really had.

uninformed ideas about what that would look like. I thought it was hot cookies every day after school and the kids got home and everybody's always calm, nothing ever happens. There's never any mess, right? But even in Hallmark movies, there's a mess in the middle. I think...

Chelsea Myers (04:44)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (04:50)
where it's just hilarious how differently life turned out than what I thought it was going to be. And probably true for 98 % of people, right? We think this, this is our path and our recipe, and then it goes, and it turns out awesome, but like completely different than you were heading toward, right? So.

Chelsea Myers (05:01)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well,

and I mean, that highlights something that so many parents say, like, you have this idea of what motherhood and what parenthood is going to look like. And it is that Hallmark for a lot of people, it's that Hallmark vision, right? Like, it's all I can think of when we talk about Hallmark movies is those those Christmas movies.

Ann Pells (05:31)
Yeah, right. they mess and then it ends up really awesome in the last few

or three minutes and you go, yep, okay, we're good now.

Chelsea Myers (05:39)
Yes, but

I love that you highlight the messy middle. ⁓ Because yes, like it can turn out very differently than you thought it would. But and I'm trying so hard to change my language on this. And it can also be one of the most beautiful experiences in terms of the in the long haul in retrospect, it can be one of the most transformative experiences that you go through.

Ann Pells (06:02)
Yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (06:08)
So

let's go there. Walk me through when you decided you had your pictures, your fairy tale pictures, when you decided you wanted to bring those pictures to life. What was that like?

Ann Pells (06:18)
Yeah.

And

yeah, I met the love of my life, thought we were in for the happily ever after and had our first baby a year later. She came early and that threw me totally out of my, I am a planner or I was, mean, I am starting to be a reformed planner to plan, not to have a plan, but kind of have a general idea of how I want things to go, but then be flexible.

Chelsea Myers (06:37)
Mm.

Ann Pells (06:53)
They say, flexible can we be about the outcome and what's happening? Anyway, and so when she was born early, all of a sudden my very planned out, know, this is what we do every day thing kind of went out the window because it was revolving around, we're in the hospital now. I'm not getting any sleep. Self-care isn't even a thing. And the combination of, I think that...

Not everyone, but I think a lot of our hormones get really messed up when we don't sleep.

even just for a couple of weeks or a few days, right? And so then we're not even in our best thinking and feeling and all the things. And we don't realize, I mean, I didn't at the time, my kids are better at it than I am because they've watched and I try to help them learn to do better. ⁓ But self-care wasn't a thing. I didn't know how to take time for myself to just breathe, like actually have a minute to.

Chelsea Myers (07:28)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (07:57)
you know, here we are, whoo. And there were lots and lots of feedings, lots and lots of stuff with doctors and nurses and people. And I just, all of my happily ever after kind of went, my word.

Chelsea Myers (07:59)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (08:10)
we do and this is an alternate reality. I'd watch everyone walking by outside the hospital window with and I'm in there figuring out with an unknown endpoint like when do we actually get to go to normal newborn life and just not even really understanding what anxiety and depression are.

Chelsea Myers (08:27)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (08:36)
at the time, like 20 years, know, 25 years ago when she was born. Now I think there are tons of resources for young families and lots of groups and support and people to talk to and collaborate with and ask questions of. ⁓ But I just thought, my gosh, I don't know anyone that's quite gone.

Chelsea Myers (08:41)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (08:59)
through this quite like this. So I felt very alone, felt very overwhelmed, just a feeling of overwhelm and I don't even know what to do about this.

And then one of the nurses at the hospital was very helpful. She said, you know, you're probably actually going through a mourning process. You're mourning what you thought was going to be happening versus what actually is happening right now. And ⁓ that was helpful just for me to give myself some grace, I guess, at the time and realize that, you know, my feelings and everything that was happening, all the hormones that change right during

Chelsea Myers (09:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Ann Pells (09:44)
all of that change, especially maybe with your first one. we just, you know, we didn't know what we didn't know. I think that happens in money, relationships, health, you know, we don't know what we don't know. So we're not even sure what to do to get it figured out.

Chelsea Myers (10:02)
Yeah, absolutely.

And, and you're saying this was 25 years ago. So it was like, the end of the 90s, the early 2000s, like, this is not the age of Instagram. This is not the age of Facebook support group. mean, there we had internet, but like, no, we weren't all connecting in the ways that we're connecting now. And to find someone else who might have shared a similar experience would have been a lot more difficult.

Ann Pells (10:07)
Yeah.

Right.

not internet, not right.

Right.

Chelsea Myers (10:31)
do you want to talk a little bit about what led to this? So she was early. She did she just decide it was time to come where there's some complications like what, what, what resulted in your NICU stay?

Ann Pells (10:36)
She was.

I

Yeah.

She was early enough that she just didn't know how to suck and eat. So everything I thought about breastfeeding, about how we were going to cooperate as a mom and daughter and help her grow and thrive changed because all of a sudden we were like she would turn blue if we tried to eat breastfeeding. She'd run out of air and even if she was, she wasn't getting enough nutrition to grow well.

Chelsea Myers (11:06)
Mmm.

Ann Pells (11:15)
So then I'm taking it personally. Now as a grandma, I don't. I'm like, well, you know, what can we do and how do we work with this? And when this happens for my children, but at the time I was taking it very personally and thinking of myself as a failure. And obviously in the postpartum journey and trying to, you know, blaming yourself and feeling like you're a personal failure and it's all your fault and all those things, those are not

Chelsea Myers (11:20)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Ann Pells (11:45)
the kinds of thoughts that are going to help you navigate very well and stay in the boat and function and help get everything figured out. ⁓ Anyway, so I think...

Chelsea Myers (11:50)
No.

Ann Pells (11:57)
life is what happens when we're making other plans, sort of as they say. it was now, looking back, it took some rough edges off of me. I had to become a different person and not be so focused on my plan and we're going to do this and these things and the warm cookies after school and all those things, you know, we just had to had to. Yeah, it had to be different than I than I expected.

Chelsea Myers (12:02)
Yeah! ⁓

Yeah, and you touch on some really impactful things. Also, when you keep saying warm cookies after school, like, my God. I think every child wishes that too. I know that's such a cliche ⁓ of just having it ready, but I think every kid would just love that, My kids would for sure. But the points that you touched on that I think are

Ann Pells (12:36)
I know.

Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (12:54)
reoccurring themes in so many families that I talked to, ⁓ Nick you or not is the feelings of guilt and of shame and blame, right? Like when the plan doesn't go the way you thought it was going to go, like, it must be something I did or I'm, I must've, I must've done exactly. Yeah. So you did, you touched on, ⁓

Ann Pells (13:05)
Right.

Yeah, yeah. I'm not enough. I messed up something, you know, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (13:23)
mental health struggles, did you start noticing that while you were in your NICU journey or was that once you got home and were out of that environment?

Ann Pells (13:34)
Mostly after we got home, then I felt like it was all on me. There wasn't a nurse to help us and there wasn't there, you know, the support was different. And of course, my husband at the time was going to school and working. So he literally had enough time to sleep and eat. And, you know, and and and I and I learned a lot from that. ⁓ Like I said, looking back,

Chelsea Myers (13:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and function.

Ann Pells (14:02)
now I would definitely.

do things differently, like take care of myself. And I did, I do remember, bless her heart, a neighbor that had gone through that same NICU experience and orienting to all of that. she just said, Ann you're probably going to need to call me. One of the days you're going to be overwhelmed, exhausted and beyond belief. just need somebody to hold the baby for a few minutes while you catch your breath. And I did do that and she came over and of course,

things like that your your breaking point usually happens at night or up in the weekends when there's doctors and other people and you know people are not awake but I trusted her enough that I called her at four in the morning one morning and okay

Chelsea Myers (14:41)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Pells (14:51)
I've hit that point. Can you just come over here for just a second? Give the baby a bottle and let me anyway. And I think she was there for 15 or 20 minutes, but I just was so grateful. Right. Definitely helpful to have other people around you, even just one. But, you know, as many as we can find to help understand and support and not judge, because I just I was at my wit's end. I think by then the baby had been crying all night, probably because she was hungry. I'm pretty

Chelsea Myers (15:09)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (15:21)
sure we didn't have enough milk for her, breast milk and the bottles and all the things that you know I just and I think looking back I would have been more kind to myself about I am good enough it's not my fault we're here in this situation what do we need to do to help get this worked out now you know

Chelsea Myers (15:43)
Yeah,

I think it's, I think it's probably for a lot of us, it's easy to look in retrospect, right? And like give ourselves the grace that we needed back then. ⁓ But I love I love that you had that neighbor that recognized that was like, you're gonna need me at some point. And it's okay. I also I also love that you you did make that call at four o'clock in the morning, right? Like

Ann Pells (15:53)
That's it.

I know.

Yeah. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (16:12)
Many of us would be like, well, it's 4am, she's probably sleeping. Right? But you

did it because you needed it. And she did come and I that's just huge that that like warms my heart to hear. ⁓ Those are the people that we need in our corner. so let's talk let's talk a little bit about just mental health in general. You had said you'd always sort of been a pretty positive person, pretty outgoing person.

Ann Pells (16:19)
Yeah.

Yeah, she was amazing.

Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (16:41)
Did you have any sort of background knowledge in things like depression or anxiety or anything like that? No.

Ann Pells (16:47)
No, no, I don't even

know if we really talked about it much back then. Now it's much more open. We have there's a lot of different, mean, you know, nutrition, sleep, all the things that we've all learned in the last 25 years. I just didn't know what I didn't know. And at the, you know, as we had our daughter and went into the parenting journey. ⁓

I did not know how to take care of myself and take care of those little ones, her brothers, her brothers that came along after her. ⁓ literally, I think now, now I'm looking at it and going, yeah, it would have gone so much better for them and for me had I followed that oxygen mask principle. You know, let's put my own oxygen mask on just for a second so I can.

Chelsea Myers (17:17)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Ann Pells (17:40)
get my bearings and then we'll handle whatever's come up during the day. Because life with a family isn't necessarily always like that Hallmark movie. It's, we had, we are first.

Chelsea Myers (17:52)
No, it can be, but...

Ann Pells (17:58)
Other adventure beyond parenting was when there were three little ones under three and my husband got laid off. And so all of a sudden our money, everything that was supporting the family was gone and jobs were not available. And we went, my word, what are we doing? Anyway, so that started a whole different journey of things I didn't know that I didn't know and didn't plan on. You know, it worked out, but it definitely was

a real eye-opener that kind of blindsided me and I don't know that I hear and hear in my anxiety going, my word, I don't know that I showed up as well as I could have for our kids and everything that we were all figuring out as a family. ⁓ We learned a ton. You always learn a ton from things that don't go like that old saying about

When life, hange lemons make lemonade, you do. I mean, we do figure out how to make lemonade somehow, right? But the process of it. Yeah. Like, ⁓ this is not where I thought I would be right now. Right. So. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (18:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, sometimes that lemonade is sour. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, I love

that you keep saying too that like, I didn't know what I didn't know. And I think that that is something that I'm going to like add to my bank of little mantras. Like I didn't know what I didn't know and I don't know what I don't know. I think that can be a really powerful tool for new parents because like you said, when you're feeling that shame and that guilt and that blame, taking a pause and being like, I don't know what I don't know. This is new.

Ann Pells (19:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (19:38)
This is,

I've never done this before and this baby's never done this before and we don't know what we don't know.

Ann Pells (19:44)
Yeah.

And it's okay to ask for help. I read a book recently and they just said that, you know, asking for help shows our strength. It's not a weakness to just be like, man, I don't know, I need some help. Right?

Chelsea Myers (19:53)
Yes.

Well, that was gonna be my next sort of question. does sort of vary for me, the responses that I get about this, like, if you look at the different generations, but like, when you were going through that and when you were struggling with those feelings of depression and anxiety, were you able...

Ann Pells (20:17)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (20:19)
to find any sort of relief? there any, like, did you seek out any support from family or friends? Did you talk to a doctor or did you kind of soldier through it?

Ann Pells (20:29)
Yeah, we did find a lot of resources probably when I started asking questions and looking for things, The internet started becoming more available. We looked for, I had a doctor ⁓ for mental health doctor recommended book called The Feeling Good Handbook that gave me a place to write down, boy, this triggered me today. I'm really not handling that very well and a place to kind of go through.

Chelsea Myers (20:36)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (20:56)
processes in between appointments with him and then talk about it with him at the next appointment. That only took a couple of months, but it gave me a lot of tools in the toolbox for later when things would come up when I didn't necessarily have a doctor in my back pocket. That was a helpful book. And then we found a book called Limitless that helped me really radically change the I'm not good enough and

always make mistakes and I always do this and I always, know, the never and always that we sometimes loop ourselves in mentally

when we are not sure how to handle a situation. I always, it's always hard. always, this always happens. It's, it just taught me a lot. There were right, even in the appendix, I guess I did the Hallmark movie thing about the Limitless book. I went to the back first and figured out what I wanted to learn and how am I going to think about.

Chelsea Myers (21:47)
Ha ha ha

Ann Pells (21:51)
myself so that I don't have to be in that I'm not good enough space anymore and that actually revolutionized how I showed up as a parent, how I showed up about money, how I showed up about my health. ⁓ You know, I'm not yet, the word yet is really powerful to me.

Chelsea Myers (22:10)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Pells (22:11)
I'm not yet where I want to be on some things, but I will be. I am. I am creating that reality of what I want for my finances, for my health, for our family. And I think that just it became a place of grace that I could say, well, they're not yet either where they want to be, but they are doing the best they can. And it is good enough right now. My best is good enough. I'm good enough. know,

There's a lot to be said for what we tell ourselves about ourselves and how that helps us show up for other people when they're in the middle of their mess too, right? Because we're not circling around in, I'm not good enough, this isn't ever gonna work out. grateful for that.

Chelsea Myers (22:44)
Yeah.

Yeah, I've heard, I've

heard the saying, and it's so hard to do, but like speak to yourself like you'd speak to your best friend. Right? Like, and that's so hard to do. But I think just like you were saying, like tools in the toolbox, it takes practice. And then you, you have it in your toolbox. ⁓ How old were your kids when you started seeing these shifts in yourself when you started like reading the books and finally being like, okay.

Ann Pells (23:04)
Thank

You're right. You're right.

Yeah. Yes.

Right.

Chelsea Myers (23:27)
Okay, this isn't my fault.

Ann Pells (23:29)
Some of them, when they were very small, ⁓ limited amount of time to...

Chelsea Myers (23:32)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (23:35)
figure that out and put my oxygen mask on while I was taking care of them in those early years. But then as they got into teenage years and they were at school or other things, I did have a little bit more time and ⁓ Limitless itself came into my life only maybe five years ago. So we're all still on that learning journey, right? And that's that one, my daughter and all of our children would say that was the big breaking point where mom totally became who she'd always

Chelsea Myers (23:53)
wow.

Ann Pells (24:05)
thought she could be as far as how she feels about herself and how she shows up for us. And I'm grateful for that. In fact, as you said, practicing and rehearsing on my phone, literally have.

those, the new beliefs that I want to feel about myself and other people. We're all good enough. We're doing our best. All of those things are recorded in a little voice memo on here that I can listen to when I can feel myself getting a little agitated or worried or, you know, so.

They they always would laugh because honestly they'd say wow mom is so outgoing and friendly and kind to everyone else outside the family But when she's at home, she's a mess.

until they were in their teenage years and I started figuring that out to put that in my, you know, just give myself those, positive feedback all the time. You know, we're not yet where we want to be, but we are, the recipe is getting there and it's going to be ready at the right time when we need it, you know.

Chelsea Myers (25:10)
Yeah, I also love that you, I don't know if you came up with it on your own or if it was from something that you read, but recording those voice notes, like hearing it in your own voice. It is talking to yourself like you would talk to a best friend, right? Like it's what you need to hear and it's in your own voice.

Ann Pells (25:26)
It is. That's what reminded me when

you said that. I'm like, well, actually it is.

Chelsea Myers (25:31)
Yeah, that is

an amazing like listeners and myself, like use your voice notes app guys, like that's the best or whatever. Yeah, that's.

Ann Pells (25:40)
or whatever you have available that you can share it

here often. I mean, I think in a way, mental health is like physical health. We don't just eat once a week and expect that our body will take care of itself the rest of the day, right? And if we're exercising, know, exercising a little bit every day and eating a little bit every day. And I feel like that for mental health in general too, like.

Chelsea Myers (25:56)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (26:07)
it's going to do a lot better if we just are regularly adding in the, it's, I call it five minute magic. Like what can we do in two or three minutes that will create the, ⁓ a little twist, a little key that opens up our possibilities of the next few minutes, right?

Chelsea Myers (26:14)
⁓ I love that!

Yeah, I love that analogy. I love that. I keep saying that. I love that. No, it is.

Ann Pells (26:31)
Good, I'm glad it's helpful. These are just my

toolbox of Ann taking care of Ann and hopefully providing some value to help other people too.

Chelsea Myers (26:41)
Well, and I think that's what's so beautiful about opportunities like this to connect, right, as parents, because what works for one person may not work for another person, but if you don't try, and like so many of the things that you've said, like, I haven't tried that before, I haven't thought of that before, it's things to try. And you're not, there's nothing to lose from trying these things.

Ann Pells (27:00)
Right. And you're not locked into

it. You might find a different way to, you know, whatever. Right.

Chelsea Myers (27:08)
Right, but you don't know what you don't know. And so,

yeah, so I think it's so valuable to hear things like that. I'm curious too, what kinds of, do you have conversations with your kids about mental health? Yeah.

Ann Pells (27:15)
Yeah.

Yes, we do. I do because

of everything that I had gone through and how well I didn't handle what I didn't know. figure if I obviously as young adults, they want to be able to do life the way they want to. so it's not a long lecture, but a few little tips that I can be like, well, know, have you thought about and then they can choose to do it or not. Like you said, like here's just a few options you might consider.

Chelsea Myers (27:28)
Mmm.

Ann Pells (27:50)
One thing that really helped me and I didn't even realize it at the time. think I was 15. sat me down on the couch and he said, count is not in my dictionary. I'm like, yes it is. It's between B and D. It's a C. It's can't.

And he's like, no, and instead of telling myself I can't have something or do something or, you know, I say, how can I, how can I improve my mental health? How can I improve my financial health? How can I improve my relationship with this person? you know, I, of saying can't, he would say, how can I? just, and I.

At 15, I'm sure it didn't sink in very far. Honestly, like, I mean, took me a while to be like, what grandpa? are we doing? Hmm. Anyway, and so then, you know, as I got into my thirties and we had the young children and me trying to balance their lives and their demands with me taking care of me. How can I find carve out two minutes? How can I?

Chelsea Myers (28:34)
I don't know how much is sticking around.

Ann Pells (28:58)
take care of this thing financially that's worrying me. How can I? Anyway, so I just have found a lot of help with that advice from grandpa too. I know right?

Chelsea Myers (29:09)
I love that grandpa. That is perfect grandpa wisdom right there. Right? We

like to say that too. We don't like to talk like, not we don't like to talk about can't but like can't not be like I can try or how can I like that's as a former educator and that whole like growth mindset thing like that resonates with me for sure like okay, so how can I

Ann Pells (29:28)
Right.

How can I have that thing happen?

Chelsea Myers (29:37)
Yeah.

I also think that it's so great that you have been open with your kids about mental health because like, like you said, like you were blindsided at the time and you learned from those experiences. You mentioned briefly earlier, you are a grandma. What is the experience like, or how does that differ for you? How does, how does being a gram-

Ann Pells (29:50)
It was.

Yeah, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (30:06)
grandmother feel different from being a mother?

Ann Pells (30:06)
⁓ very good.

It's, I think, the best of both worlds, really. You can just love on those kids and then send them home to their mom and dad. As they say. So they're not my day-to-day responsibility, but I can just thoroughly enjoy time with them and making memories. ⁓ Grandma life is probably more like the hot cookies after lunch life that I thought.

Chelsea Myers (30:18)
Yes!

Yeah, that's the Hallmark movie.

Ann Pells (30:36)
I was, you know,

yeah, that's the, and of course you have to keep in mind that they aren't your kids. So I have to follow whatever family rules and discipline and how they operate, what their parents have asked, you know, how they do it in their family. But it's a great trade-off.

Yeah, grandma life is the best. It's all the fun without a lot of the mess.

Chelsea Myers (31:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's, I think

a lot of grandparents say that. ⁓ I know, I know like, obviously like my parents and my in-laws, when they take my kids, I'll be like, my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like they're through the roof today and they're always like, yeah, but I'm only with them for a little while. So, yeah.

Ann Pells (31:28)
Yeah, I can. Yeah. And that might

be how my 4 a.m. friend felt. She was almost into the grandma part of her life too. And so coming over to help me even at 4 a.m. for 15 or 20 minutes wasn't, wasn't, I mean, it was a big deal to me and it was life changing. It just didn't, okay, for a minute. But for her, you know, maybe that wasn't as big of a...

Chelsea Myers (31:50)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (31:56)
I don't know that she thought much about it. She was like, yeah, I'm fine. Great. Glad you asked. Here we go. Right. But it was life changing for me. And in that way, you know, maybe that's what it can be when I, when I have the kids for just a little while, while they go and have some time or do what they're doing. Right. You know,

Chelsea Myers (32:00)
Right, she's like, I can just be there, I'm here.

Yeah, for sure.

You're giving them that space to put the mask on first, right? ⁓ Did and again, I don't know how many grandkids you have or who has the grandkids but did any of your kids experience any postpartum mental health issues?

Ann Pells (32:19)
Yeah.

It's possible that some of the daughters-in-law have. But again, they handled it so much differently and better than I. Self-care is a thing. They're out taking classes, learning things, enjoying some time. And I think that all of my children, whether they have kids or don't, they're much better at tag-teaming.

Chelsea Myers (32:43)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Ann Pells (32:55)
then

there I think maybe I don't know maybe it's a generational thing because I think the generation before me had even less father involvement. They just come home from work and kind of and the mother takes care of all of it right and my and our kids and your generation. I don't think that's the general pattern. I think you are navigating so much better and faster and in some ways I'm wondering it would be interesting to find out but I think that that

Chelsea Myers (33:09)
Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Ann Pells (33:25)
takes care of some of those symptoms of postpartum. I mean and and because people talk about it more you're more likely to go yeah I'm not feeling like myself I should go get some help I should talk to the doctor I should go try some some vitamins or some medicine or something all the different things that are available now.

Chelsea Myers (33:50)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (33:50)
⁓ So in other words, for my kids, if they have, it's been very short lived because they were more willing to be like, ⁓ we need to figure this out. And not.

Chelsea Myers (34:01)
Well, and I think that speaks

to you in the example that you set as you grew in your parenting journey too. Because yes, I think it is a generational thing. think we're, the generation before me and this generation, or the generation after me are doing things a little bit differently because we have access to more information, we have access to more resources, but also in your case,

Ann Pells (34:11)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (34:29)
you set that example of, am going to step into my, as they're saying, the self care era, right? Like I am going to take care of me, I am going to talk about mental health, I am going to, I am going to set my kids up for success that way. So if maybe if they did experience those things, they just felt safe enough to

Ann Pells (34:51)
Yeah,

it'd be like, okay, we've got to go figure this out. Yeah. And I don't think I can't take any credit. think they literally just, they're just very smart, beautiful people and they've.

Chelsea Myers (34:54)
Yeah! Yeah!

Ha ha ha ha!

Ann Pells (35:05)
I think they just in general felt supported from all the different resources that were available to them. And, you know, I am going to take care of my physical health. I am going to take care of my spiritual health and mental health, even as a young parent, even while I'm like, to me, those early years were, I'm swimming as hard as I can swim and I'm still drowning. Right. And as I learned over the like when they got

Chelsea Myers (35:22)
Hmm?

Yeah.

Ann Pells (35:35)
to be 10, 11, 12, I finally started figuring out self-care better. anyway, I think it's a blessing that many more resources like what you're offering here, as well as other things that people can tap into just to learn and be like, yeah, I don't know what I don't know. And maybe someone will have an idea that will help me.

Chelsea Myers (35:57)
Yeah,

or even just not feeling alone, just feeling seen. mean, that's kind of, yes, that's our whole goal, right? Is that connection. Yeah, that's the whole mental health buzzword or buzz phrase. It's okay to not be okay. And it is, but it's also okay to want to be okay. Yeah. And that's kind of that.

Ann Pells (36:02)
Right? Like someone understands and it's okay. Yeah, it's okay to not be okay.

Right now, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (36:26)
feels like a theme for you. Like, you were like, okay, this, this isn't where I wanted to be. This isn't what I thought it was going to be. ⁓ But you did, you took steps to, to get you on a path and a trajectory that you did want to be on. so you talked a little bit about in the beginning when I was like, what fills your cup? What do you like to do for self care? So reading and chocolate and movies.

Ann Pells (36:39)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (36:52)
But

what were the most impactful forms of self care for you when you started to come out of that fog? What were the things that made the most difference?

Ann Pells (37:00)
.

Yeah, the things that you've mentioned, ⁓ being around groups of people that were also working things out, just feeling like what I was feeling was normal and that someone could understand and relate. ⁓ And then of course, I think.

Chelsea Myers (37:05)
Yeah?

Ann Pells (37:20)
There's church support groups, there's all kinds of different groups of people that have common interests with you that make it fun. This week I have a book club group and we all love books, but we have so much fun laughing that we hardly ever talk about the book we read, right? So, you know, there's just so many. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (37:32)
you

I love.

Ann Pells (37:40)
So I think part of that for me, actually, a lot of it was visual, but then it started becoming what can I listen to right now, which is probably why we came across the putting it in our phone and let's repeat that over and over.

until it becomes how we normally think about anything, right? Because it's like riding a bike, I think. Like you said, we're practicing and at first we feel like really, ⁓ we're gonna fall off and about anything, money, health, mental health, all the...

Chelsea Myers (38:00)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (38:15)
And then it just kind of becomes second nature, becomes easier to just carry on the course. Right. I laugh in one sense. And this is when I got married and was in that, hot cookies after school, part of my life before everything happened different. I, my mother-in-law is an excellent cook and she's amazing and she can do it all in 25 minutes and you have this amazing meal already ready. And it would take me so long, a long,

Chelsea Myers (38:23)
Yeah?

Yeah.

wow.

Ann Pells (38:45)
time to do that same amount of meal preparation and I remember asking my husband at the time like how does she do that and he's like well she's been making you know creating food and cooking for 20 more years than you Ann I'm like okay okay well there is that right she's had way more practice and so

Chelsea Myers (39:04)
Yeah

Ann Pells (39:08)
I think maybe that's the fun part of where I'm at now. I've had way more practice on self care and mental health and all the things that are working well. ⁓

that there's, honestly really don't have that, my kids growing up are like, yeah, mom's just awesome and fun for everyone else. But when she's at home, she's like, And now it's not really like that. Now it's more like, okay, I'm the same whether I'm out in public or just.

by ourselves at home as a family. And I'm grateful for that, especially for the younger kids that they get the new improved version of Ann that's been practicing more on the mental health recipe of how, you know, I need these ingredients and this is how we're gonna create the best day. Sadly, well, true. I do think that adults, the weather, the climate in the family is created

Chelsea Myers (39:42)
Yeah.

Hahaha

Yeah!

Ann Pells (40:08)
a lot by the mental health of the parents, ⁓ a man or a woman, but whoever's around the children more, whatever they're working with on their own mental health, that will have an impact on how well the children figure out how to do everything, right? Yeah, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (40:12)
Mm-hmm.

navigate their own mental health and yeah.

Yeah, that's actually, that's very profound. ⁓ But something that seems like almost obvious in a way, but it's not what we think about. if mom, and we do talk about this in the maternal mental health realm about if mom's mental health is suffering.

the family's mental health is going to suffer. So if mom is supported and mom is feeling safe and mom is feeling seen, then right, the whole family is impacted, absolutely. ⁓ One thing that I have loved about this conversation so far is your analogies are all so

Ann Pells (40:53)
is also gonna.

Yeah.

Yeah, the whole family is impacted, right?

Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (41:18)
wholesome. Like I have this like warm fuzzy feeling. Like we're talking about we're talking about things that can be heavy, but they don't feel heavy right now. Right? Like, so you did experience things that were so hard. They were really hard and they were unfamiliar to you like a NICU journey. We almost glossed right over that. But like that in and of itself is a trauma. And that is something that will stay with you. And then

Ann Pells (41:22)
Good. Good.

Good.

Chelsea Myers (41:46)
to experience mental health struggles after that, that is something that can stick with you. But throughout our conversation, you have tackled these heavy subjects with this growth mindset, right? While also sprinkling in, I'm gonna say it again, these Hallmark movie ⁓ analogies. So.

Ann Pells (41:49)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (42:12)
I think it's important. do a lot of my episodes can be really heavy and really hard. And I think those are super important. But I also think that new parents need to hear stories like this as well. To know it's not always going to be dark. It's not it's not. Yes. It's not always going to be a horror movie. It may turn out to be

Ann Pells (42:30)
I know. You are gonna make it. It's okay.

Ha ha ha.

Chelsea Myers (42:41)
the Christmas cookies and the snow falling and the kids around the Christmas tree, like you know what I mean? You just have to get there. And it goes back to the can't thing. It's like, it's not that you can't get there. You will, you're just not there yet. You're not there yet. Yeah. So because I'm interested,

Ann Pells (42:45)
Yeah, all right. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, yet. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (43:07)
Talk to me a little bit about how these shifts have impacted what you're doing with your life now. What is your biggest joy that you are following right now?

Ann Pells (43:20)
⁓ that's I love that. What's your biggest joy? That's a beautiful question for any of us to be thinking about, right? Like, I think my biggest joy is that my children and other people who I'm able to impact, just like that friend did at four in the morning, no one has, well, very few people have called me at four in the morning. There's been a few, but you know, I read a book called The Butterfly Effect.

Chelsea Myers (43:42)
You

Ann Pells (43:47)
And that's what it's about that someone did a little thing that created a huge impact later. And, it literally was about a little baby that got rescued out of, out of a burlap sack in the middle of the war. His parents were, had died and someone found the sack with the baby in it and they raised the baby and created this whole different reality for him because of their kindness. And I see that. I see, I think that's my biggest joy that we don't even really realize the impact.

that we have that that 4 a.m. phone call that she had probably she doesn't even think about that right now but to me it was like

was what I needed, right? And I think we give that to each other when we support the mental health journey, the financial health, all the things that people are trying to figure out. How can I figure this out? And just giving ourselves that grace and giving other people that grace too. ⁓ my biggest joy is that people who are coming behind me in the journey, my kids and others, they're doing it better and faster than I

Chelsea Myers (44:26)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ann Pells (44:56)
because of something I might have said or something they learned from other people around them. Nobody's an island. We all need each other. And ⁓ I'm very, very grateful. We've moved now 15 times. And ⁓ in the last 30 years since we had our little one, and that was definitely not in the plan either, but it created a, don't know what I don't know about this. I need to figure out how to get that mortgage paid off faster, easier.

Chelsea Myers (45:11)
Whoa!

Yeah.

Ann Pells (45:26)
because we're moving job changes and all the things that I didn't expect and I'm grateful for that so that's joyful too right I think we have we definitely have a choice we can always choose to focus on all the mess

Chelsea Myers (45:36)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (45:44)
And we can also choose to focus on, wow, look at all those things that went right today. My husband said that in his early 20s, before he met me, someone asked him to do that. Let's just write down a gratitude list every day. Couple things that actually we were just grateful for. It went better than we expected or someone was extra kind or something great happened today. And just the process of writing that down for me right now, it's on my phone because everything

Chelsea Myers (45:58)
Yeah.

Ann Pells (46:14)
things

on my phone. Digital record, don't have to keep track of any papers or anything, but I can still have that gratitude. ⁓

I remember right in the middle, honestly, now that you've brought this up, my joy, at the time during the NICU journey and trying to adjust to being a new mom and all of that, I was feeling very sorry for myself. There wasn't a lot of gratitude and I wasn't, we were in overwhelm and crazy and an adult that I had trusted as a teenager in my church came over to give us a little baby present and she said, know, your friend that

was in that same group with you, she just found out that their little four-year-old has juvenile diabetes. And this part of your NICU journey and the crazy and the mess that you feel right now, it is going to get better and it is going to go away. She's going to be fine. She'll figure out how to eat. She'll figure out how to grow and become a beautiful young person.

⁓ But the diabetes is going to stay with your friends little one for the rest of their life. They're going to still be working on that. And in a way it gave me a perspective shift, right? Like.

Chelsea Myers (47:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ann Pells (47:31)
Yeah, I'm not gonna, none of our mental health journey has to stay where it's at. We can always improve and we can figure out new things and learn from what didn't work. So we stopped doing the stuff that didn't work and do more of the things that are working, whatever that is for each person, right?

Chelsea Myers (47:36)
Absolutely.

Yeah, and I love the gratitude list. It's very similar to something that I do. And I always recommend is I say, look for the glimmers. And a glimmer is an opposite of a trigger. And that is a practice that I do. So it doesn't mean that I'm not going to be triggered. It doesn't mean that you're not going to be triggered. There are going to be things that are hard. But if you are actively looking for the glimmers every day,

It doesn't negate the hard. doesn't mean you can't. Yeah, right. Still know it's there. It's okay to be angry sometimes. It's okay to be upset up sometimes. Not living in it though. Looking for those little glimmers and being like, ⁓ okay. That's cool. That happened. Everything else went wrong today. Every other thing. But this one thing went right.

Ann Pells (48:18)
Yeah. Yeah, I still know that it's there.

That's cool.

But this is a dream!

Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (48:45)
Like, like, one of my glimmers today is going to be the feeling, the warm feeling that I have talking to you, like that just feels like comfort and joy. And so that's gonna, that's a glimmer for me for today. ⁓ before I get to, I always reach a point where I feel like it's the deep sigh. And then I know that I'm ready for my wrap up question. But before I get there,

Ann Pells (48:58)
Good.

Chelsea Myers (49:11)
You are offering resources and your knowledge to people to help make their lives a little bit easier in so many ways. If my listeners want to learn more about what it is that you're doing, where is the best place to find you?

Ann Pells (49:26)
And life giver legacy calm that's kind of long to remember so The other note is at Ann's plan calm just a nns Ann's plan calm because I feel like I Just want to give people a recipe of things that are simple that they can incorporate without having to go

Chelsea Myers (49:32)
It's gonna be in the show notes.

Ann Pells (49:51)
take a whole nother school class and learn everything there. All of us have only so much brain space and time, I think, to learn new things and try things. But those are some of the financial tools that I've had available and definitely happy to help with any of the other books and resources that have helped me with my mental health journey and things like that as well. So yeah, happy to help that way.

Chelsea Myers (50:18)
I love it. So those will be listed in the show notes. So listeners, please check the show notes. I'm doing things a little different this season. And I'm asking my guests to do a little exercise with me, not a physical exercise. Don't worry, stay comfy in your chair. I am asking us to go back before the days of cell phones and text messaging when everyone was was easily available and reachable all the time. The days when

Ann Pells (50:23)
Yeah.

I'm

Chelsea Myers (50:47)
If you called and they didn't answer, you had to leave a message. You had to leave a message. So you don't know who my next guest is going to be. You don't know anything about them, but you've called into Quiet Connection today and they weren't here. So you've got to leave them a message. You got to leave a message on the voicemail. What message would you like to leave for my next guest?

Ann Pells (50:51)
Right.

you know, hope can be found in the most interesting places. Don't give up. Things are going to work out. And just because they haven't worked out yet doesn't mean that they won't. They will. And I'm giving this advice to myself as well, because sometimes I think we want instant quick.

And sometimes it takes a little longer than instant quick, but it's still okay. And if you can find those glimmers in every day and the joy in the journey and be okay with where you're at, where you're heading, it's all going to be okay. I would want that for my younger self too. When I was in the overwhelm and the...

I, this is not my warm cookies after school life. I would, I would have wanted someone to offer that to me. Just there's always hope. Don't give up and, things will work out. They do.

Chelsea Myers (52:06)
Yeah.

That is a beautiful message. It's gonna be so fun for me to... The part about this is that you have to listen to the episode before yours to get your message, but it's gonna be really fun for me to sort of check in with you guys down the road and be like, did you get your message? How did that resonate with you?

But thank you, thank you for doing that little exercise with me. And thank you for sharing some time with me. It's not morning anymore for me here. I almost said this morning, it's lunchtime for me now. But I just, appreciate you sharing your joy, sharing your story, sharing some of the things that worked for you. And I appreciate you.

Ann Pells (53:07)
Thank you. I appreciate you too. I think this is a beautiful place that people can find all kinds of help. So it's great.